What is your favorite flat roofing system? and why?
What is your favorite flat roofing system?
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JWilliams
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Thickness is controlled in three ways, and we utilize all three.
Firstly, yes, the sprayer needs to have a grasp on how much the machine sprays out per minute, per pass at the sprayers normal motive rate, what the job spec calls for, what needs to be built thicker, etc. This is done much like a BUR mopper would know if his hot is going down at the proper flow rates. You have to be at the proper application temperature, and the mopper needs to know what he's doing.
Secondly, we know how much material has been ordered, is on the job, how large an area we cover with said amount of material, mark out this area, and app.ly the product. If we have left overs, then we go back and hit thinner areas and seams, flasahings, penetrations again until this area's material is accounted for.
Lastly, we use an elcometer mil thickness guage. This is an expensive tool. It measures how thick your coating is electronically.
Measuring a coatings, minimum thickness is the l.east of our worries in applying this awesome system.
Overspray.... Dont let it get on anything you dont want it on. Its that simple.
No seam tapes.... not needed. Instant set self-reinforcing. We can spray right up until it rains baby!
Unlike any of the elastomeric acrylics, the thicker you apply polyurea, the STRONGER it gets. So to build up at the flashings requires no reinforcement of any kind but additional spray.
Grumpy, have I ever gotten any samples in to your hands? If you were to sell this stuff, we travel.
If youre not an owner that can be on the job, I wouldnt recommend this system.
Firstly, yes, the sprayer needs to have a grasp on how much the machine sprays out per minute, per pass at the sprayers normal motive rate, what the job spec calls for, what needs to be built thicker, etc. This is done much like a BUR mopper would know if his hot is going down at the proper flow rates. You have to be at the proper application temperature, and the mopper needs to know what he's doing.
Secondly, we know how much material has been ordered, is on the job, how large an area we cover with said amount of material, mark out this area, and app.ly the product. If we have left overs, then we go back and hit thinner areas and seams, flasahings, penetrations again until this area's material is accounted for.
Lastly, we use an elcometer mil thickness guage. This is an expensive tool. It measures how thick your coating is electronically.
Measuring a coatings, minimum thickness is the l.east of our worries in applying this awesome system.
Overspray.... Dont let it get on anything you dont want it on. Its that simple.
No seam tapes.... not needed. Instant set self-reinforcing. We can spray right up until it rains baby!
Unlike any of the elastomeric acrylics, the thicker you apply polyurea, the STRONGER it gets. So to build up at the flashings requires no reinforcement of any kind but additional spray.
Grumpy, have I ever gotten any samples in to your hands? If you were to sell this stuff, we travel.
If youre not an owner that can be on the job, I wouldnt recommend this system.
Extra thick with acrylics is not better. There is a point at which you are screwing the pooch by adding more material.
Three gallons of properly cured acrylic will pield about 27 dry mil per 100 sq ft. 3 gallons of polyurea will yield 48 dry mil per 100 sq ft. We will go up to 100 mil. Anything beyond this is overkill, in my professional opinion.
Three gallons of properly cured acrylic will pield about 27 dry mil per 100 sq ft. 3 gallons of polyurea will yield 48 dry mil per 100 sq ft. We will go up to 100 mil. Anything beyond this is overkill, in my professional opinion.
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Aaron is this considered a coating or is it a roof system?
What type of Warranties are available and who backs them?
It sounds similar to the below grade or plaza deck -type systems that I have read about.
Is it Energy Star rated? How do you find it holds up to UV?
I typically stay away from field fabricated products for many of the reasons Grumpy pointed out. As roofers on the East Coast we seem to have enough working against us, having the membrane produced in a controlled environment rather than on the roof takes some of the chance for error out of the mix.
I am always up for learning about other products so if you have a link or something I'd like to check it out.
What type of Warranties are available and who backs them?
It sounds similar to the below grade or plaza deck -type systems that I have read about.
Is it Energy Star rated? How do you find it holds up to UV?
I typically stay away from field fabricated products for many of the reasons Grumpy pointed out. As roofers on the East Coast we seem to have enough working against us, having the membrane produced in a controlled environment rather than on the roof takes some of the chance for error out of the mix.
I am always up for learning about other products so if you have a link or something I'd like to check it out.
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752 Posts
Show me how and who to market to and I would be willing.Grumpy, have I ever gotten any samples in to your hands? If you were to sell this stuff, we travel.
I don't have any samples. :whistling:
Ed
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351 Posts
I don't have any samples either but its a long way to come lol
Ed, shoot me an email or call me at my office number. I will be happy nto get you some samples. We can go over the oparticulars also.
Maybe you, Grumpy and I can all get together and have some Dunkin Donuts coffeetalk. Remember the skit from SNL?
This tends to be a profitable arrangement for all of us.
Maybe you, Grumpy and I can all get together and have some Dunkin Donuts coffeetalk. Remember the skit from SNL?
This tends to be a profitable arrangement for all of us.
It holds up to UV quite well if you use the aliphatic polyureas or aluminumized, copper, grey or black aromatic polyureas. Aromatics are better for long term durability, but if you want a UV stable color, aliphatics are needed.
There are some various specs on gaining Energy Star ratings. You can waterproof seams, fasteners, flashings, drains, etc with an aromatic polyurea, and go with a white acrylic @ 2 gallons per square for the required 70% aged reflectivity of the Energy Star rating. OR you could go with an aliphatic color stable white to achieve same.
The acrylic will wear like any other acrylic, but can be recoated after about 10 years with a pressure wash, primer, and acrylic.
VersaFlex guarantees their aromatic (40 mil) with an acrylic latex paint topcoat colorant if applied directly behind the polyurea application BEFORE the reaction is complete. This is must be done within 4 hours. It has to be done this way with this spec because the paint will actually cross-link with the polyurea since it is applied before the molecular cross-linking is completed.
Due to cost considerations, we generally apply an aluminumized aromatic polyurea/urethane hybrid at 48 mil ADFT that weathers to a light grey and provides a little over 50% aged reflectivity. We offer ten years on this system, and polyurea mfg warranties are also available.
Field processing is the only way that this system is able to be applied since it is instant setting (10-30 seconds for hybrids and 4-6 seconds for pure polyureas). You KNOW if youre off-ratio, and you have to stop immediately, clean up the faulty material, solve the proportioning issue, and continue spraying. If you mess this system up, its your fault 99% of the time, and therefore need a wealth of technical info, the right equipment, and spraying experience to get it right.
This is what we do.
Aaron you gave me a sample and a ball park price. Simply put, I can't afford youThickness is controlled in three ways, and we utilize all three.
Firstly, yes, the sprayer needs to have a grasp on how much the machine sprays out per minute, per pass at the sprayers normal motive rate, what the job spec calls for, what needs to be built thicker, etc. This is done much like a BUR mopper would know if his hot is going down at the proper flow rates. You have to be at the proper application temperature, and the mopper needs to know what he's doing.
Secondly, we know how much material has been ordered, is on the job, how large an area we cover with said amount of material, mark out this area, and app.ly the product. If we have left overs, then we go back and hit thinner areas and seams, flasahings, penetrations again until this area's material is accounted for.
Lastly, we use an elcometer mil thickness guage. This is an expensive tool. It measures how thick your coating is electronically.
Measuring a coatings, minimum thickness is the l.east of our worries in applying this awesome system.
Overspray.... Dont let it get on anything you dont want it on. Its that simple.
No seam tapes.... not needed. Instant set self-reinforcing. We can spray right up until it rains baby!
Unlike any of the elastomeric acrylics, the thicker you apply polyurea, the STRONGER it gets. So to build up at the flashings requires no reinforcement of any kind but additional spray.
Grumpy, have I ever gotten any samples in to your hands? If you were to sell this stuff, we travel.
If youre not an owner that can be on the job, I wouldnt recommend this system.
Plus seiously I can't sell one product that I have only one installer for. I become too dependant upon that installer and if for some reason we ever break partnership I am left stuck holding the bag. You also bring up another point, I don't want any system where I'd have to be locked on the job. In theory I want multiple crews out working every day, that'd be impossible for me to be in 4 places at once, plus doing my sales and business management too. Impossible.
.....And that's where we come in.
You dont have to be on the job to know youre getting a quality job.
I am an owner operator so that you dont need to be one in order to get your customers a polyurea roofing system.
With what you already know and sell, you could easily sell this system at higher prices than mine. I am offering you a good value.
If our system does fail before your retirement, I can show you how to properly repair and maintain our system. You have intelligent roofing people. They can be trained for this aspect without expensive outlays.
It really is a win-win-win situation, Grumpy.
You dont have to be on the job to know youre getting a quality job.
I am an owner operator so that you dont need to be one in order to get your customers a polyurea roofing system.
With what you already know and sell, you could easily sell this system at higher prices than mine. I am offering you a good value.
If our system does fail before your retirement, I can show you how to properly repair and maintain our system. You have intelligent roofing people. They can be trained for this aspect without expensive outlays.
It really is a win-win-win situation, Grumpy.
I prefer Javaman from Mad TV. LOL When he was popular I was working in a machine shop and took my saftey glasses and painted big yellow blood shot eyes on them.Ed, shoot me an email or call me at my office number. I will be happy nto get you some samples. We can go over the oparticulars also.
Maybe you, Grumpy and I can all get together and have some Dunkin Donuts coffeetalk. Remember the skit from SNL?
This tends to be a profitable arrangement for all of us.
Anyways we should have met at the CRCA show last week. Are either of you going to the AirVent seminar?
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Chit, I missed the CRCA? I didn't write it down in my calender.I prefer Javaman from Mad TV. LOL When he was popular I was working in a machine shop and took my saftey glasses and painted big yellow blood shot eyes on them.
Anyways we should have met at the CRCA show last week. Are either of you going to the AirVent seminar?
What is the Air Vent schedule for the North side?
I got a nice document e-mailed to me from Paul Scelci that is now available on the Air Vent website, with some good thermal imaging photos on the inside of an attic, before and after balanced ventilation was done and corrected. Too bads it used PAV's instead of Ridge Vents.
I wonder why they didn't do a test home for those results?
Ed
Joined
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752 Posts
I looked up and registered for the Air Vent Seminar for the 13nth last night.The dates should all be on the airvent site. However we are going the 13th of february.
LOL I'll try to remind ya of the CRCA next year, old man
I "May" change my mind and go to the one the day earlier, "If" I decide to go down to Florida, possibly sharing a ride with Aaron and/or Tiny.
I don't have the funds to do it on my own right now, but I surely would like to meet Tom and Chris in person, plus any of the other guys who are coming down, especially Mike Hicks and his crew he is bringing along.
Last minute call and a flip of the coin, as long as I don't lose the coin, maybe I can afford the dollar meals at Mc-D's or Wendys. LOL
Ed
I wanted to go to the polyurea school. Infact I really wanted to go and planned on it. However with the winter coming a month early, and the other training courses, It's just not going to happen.
I was also supposed to go to Penn. for the Versico training and certification in Feb. however I can't afford that either. Although I plan to go to Michigan in March for a Versico training.
With this winter coming too early, and having a large job left undone, and having a GC I have been doing work for for years owing me a substantial ammount of money (probably won't be workign for him anymore) I am scraping by to pay the bills. The good news is with the winter being so harsh I have a good jump start on the new year and will hit the ground running in spring.
I was also supposed to go to Penn. for the Versico training and certification in Feb. however I can't afford that either. Although I plan to go to Michigan in March for a Versico training.
With this winter coming too early, and having a large job left undone, and having a GC I have been doing work for for years owing me a substantial ammount of money (probably won't be workign for him anymore) I am scraping by to pay the bills. The good news is with the winter being so harsh I have a good jump start on the new year and will hit the ground running in spring.
Reply to original question
If your looking for a roof that will last, won’t leak and will put up with a lot of abuse its hard to beat a 4 (or 5) ply gravel surface Built Up Roof. Asphalt is good, coal tar is even better. (RooferJim – are you really nostalgic for that stuff? Man – just thinking about it makes my eyes burn ☺.)
SBS modified is ok – but defiantly more prone to problems – wrinkles, cap sheet granule loss, blisters.
I like single plys a lot, but only when the roof is not subject to foot traffic and other abuse. EPDMs been around since the 60’s and since the manufacturers switched from glue to tape at the seams they have performed exceptionally well. I also like the fact that any tool you need to install EPDM can be found at the neighborhood hardware store
I also like PVC – hard to beat a good heat welded seam. Unfortunately I’ve inspected a number of jobs where the welds are not good. Still if you need a reflective roof PVC is the way to go.
Not a big fan of TPO, it’s a relative newcomer to the US market and the manufacturer’s are still playing with the formula, trying to balance the need to meet UL and FM requirements for fire resistance with the need for a roof that will hold up to UV light. Last year at the NRCA technical committee reported problems with TPO membrane surface cracking along the backside of seams along with other problems. I agree with SinglePlyGuy – need to see more of a good track record before I’d recommend TPO.
If your looking for a roof that will last, won’t leak and will put up with a lot of abuse its hard to beat a 4 (or 5) ply gravel surface Built Up Roof. Asphalt is good, coal tar is even better. (RooferJim – are you really nostalgic for that stuff? Man – just thinking about it makes my eyes burn ☺.)
SBS modified is ok – but defiantly more prone to problems – wrinkles, cap sheet granule loss, blisters.
I like single plys a lot, but only when the roof is not subject to foot traffic and other abuse. EPDMs been around since the 60’s and since the manufacturers switched from glue to tape at the seams they have performed exceptionally well. I also like the fact that any tool you need to install EPDM can be found at the neighborhood hardware store
I also like PVC – hard to beat a good heat welded seam. Unfortunately I’ve inspected a number of jobs where the welds are not good. Still if you need a reflective roof PVC is the way to go.
Not a big fan of TPO, it’s a relative newcomer to the US market and the manufacturer’s are still playing with the formula, trying to balance the need to meet UL and FM requirements for fire resistance with the need for a roof that will hold up to UV light. Last year at the NRCA technical committee reported problems with TPO membrane surface cracking along the backside of seams along with other problems. I agree with SinglePlyGuy – need to see more of a good track record before I’d recommend TPO.
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71 Posts
I have always been interested in IB Roofing but they apparently have no presence in our area. Even when I stop by their booth at trade shows and get contact names...never get a call back lol.
They might be the ONLY heat welded system that I have not installed....their loss!
They might be the ONLY heat welded system that I have not installed....their loss!
I was on a 22 year old .045 EPDM Firestone roof today. Glued seams and all. Looks fantastic. It belongs to an old roofer that retired a couple of years ago. These guys did top-notch work. He still swears by BUR.
Best thing about the whole story is this guy has hired me to put on a metal standing seam roof on the mansard. Its 10 sq. straight run with one hip. I priced it at 9K. He hired me on the spot without taking any other bids. I had never met the guy before, but he said he has heard about me and didn't want anybody else on his roof. My head grew ten sizes bigger immediatly. This old-timer is twice my age and I have never had such a compliment.
Best thing about the whole story is this guy has hired me to put on a metal standing seam roof on the mansard. Its 10 sq. straight run with one hip. I priced it at 9K. He hired me on the spot without taking any other bids. I had never met the guy before, but he said he has heard about me and didn't want anybody else on his roof. My head grew ten sizes bigger immediatly. This old-timer is twice my age and I have never had such a compliment.
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