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Roofing Expert
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys, I have noticed by looking at roofs you have done in the States that there doesn't seem to be alot of saffolding around where you are working, here in the U.K. health and safety insists we have scaffolding to just under facia height.
I have seen boards that are fixed across ladders (used to be known as cripplers here)and also on accross shingle and slate roofs,sorry i dont know there name,is this the norm or have i missed something?
Cheers
Dave
 

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It takes too long to set up pipe scaffolding, especially if you were going to be running it around the entire perimeter of the house.

The toe boards hooked onto the roof hooks work well, if installed correctly. The correct OSHA name for the roof hooks is, "Roof Cleats", by the way, but I have Never heard anyone cal them that.

The ones that stretch between 2 ladders are commonly called walk planks and can be made of Aluminum or Wood planks, resting on top of the ladder-jacks for support and the proper height.

How about if you take some photos of the safety set-ups that you use in the UK and some of us can do the same, to share safety lessons?

Ed
 

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Roofing Expert
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Ed, had a quick look though my photos and most nearly all of them are of the roof, but i found these as follows,we have to scaffold right around the building when we re-roof, the only time i dont is if the roof is a fairly flat pitch but this is rare.
You would not want to be caught working with out scaffold but the Health and safety dept, they would close you down!
 

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That is what we call Pipe Scaffolding around here.

I own 4-6 sections of them with some hoisting accessories and planks to span the widths, plus the levelers and wheels.

That is just One option allowed by OSHA here. I am surprised you are not allowed variations for fall arrest protection other than that.

Ed
 

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Roofing Relapse
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Here is the thing. Scaffolding is sometimes necessarya but usually not. It'd take more time to setup the scaffolding than to actually roof that side of the house. However on a steep roof you have to start off a scaffold, and on those jobs we use ladder scaffold which sets up quick attached to the ladders.

Fall protection of some kind is necessary and usually slide guards are the best. Slide guards are essentially a 2x6 fastened to the roof using a bracket which is fastened under the roofing material. Technically youa re supposed to use something like this on each and every roof. I talked to one guy who says he does, even on garages and I laughed at him and asked if he's ever inspected one of his jobs in progress. It's a good thing but who's going to slide on a 3/12?


I had one customer mad at me on a siding job because we were delaying about the weather. When he suggested we setup and tarp off the scaffolding and use a heater, "like the masons do" I suggested he pay me for the equiment rental, setup and take down time as well as propane for heat." He decided to wait it out. :)
 

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Roofing Expert
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Im afraid it has been drummed in to us now, also we dont set up the scaffold, a scaffolder does, he has to have a up to date ticket(meaning he is certified to errect the scaffold) you can set up a tower scaffold(aluminium) but not a pipe one.
When we work on new builds the scaffold is but up in stages and all trades use this,but when we re-roof it is up to us and it is dam expensive, an average house would be in the region of £800-1000 ($1160-1450)
from the photos i have seen of the houses you guys build that would be alot more, the cost is passed on to the customer.
All i can say in defence of this system is what price do you but on safety?
If some one has some photos of the roof cleat method i would love to see it.
Cheers
Dave
 

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We often use pedestrian scaffolds in the City when the building is right up at the side walk. You can't close a side walk, you just can't. So we have to protect those who choose to walk under the construction zone instead of crossing the street.

Saftey has no prive Dave, I mean it's priceless... But when we are competing against guys on a regular basis who pay their guys cash under the table and don't have workmans' compensation... How much extra non-mandatory saftey can we throw on the job?

Would scaffolding be better? Yes, maybe one some jobs. Is it absolutely necessary, well maybe on some jobs. However there are other methods that are just as or nearlya s good which take alot less time to setup. Would I like to do this on every job? Sure but already being $1,000 to $2,000 higher than many many of my competitors I am not sure I could throw another $1,000 ontop of that.

I'll go through my archive and see if I can find some "setup" pics for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Grumpy, yes i see where your comming from with the price and against a guy who employs cash guys, i tend to use the same crew to do my re-tile or re-slates and i know there friends and family so it would be difficult for me if ,god forbid, something happened to them while working on one of my roofs.
Dont get me wrong, 60% of my work is done off a ladder and a cat ladder (hook lader)and even that can be scarey at times but you take your time and surcure everything thats possible to slip.
To be honest the re-roofs we quote a price for will need scaffolding, so the next roofer who also quotes will need scaffolding too,so its a fairly level palying field.
The ones who tend not to use scaffolding seem to be the pikeys(gypsies)
and you cant price against them because you will be bankrupt be for the years out!
Health and safety in this country has gone sooooo over the top its untrue, you cant fart with out someone comming to check you have a certificate
for doing it right! but i understand why working at height is there number 1 target, the top accident rate in this country is falling from height so were target No.1
 

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Hi Grumpy, yes i see where your comming from with the price and against a guy who employs cash guys, i tend to use the same crew to do my re-tile or re-slates and i know there friends and family so it would be difficult for me if ,god forbid, something happened to them while working on one of my roofs.

Dont get me wrong, 60% of my work is done off a ladder and a cat ladder (hook lader)and even that can be scarey at times but you take your time and surcure everything thats possible to slip.

To be honest the re-roofs we quote a price for will need scaffolding, so the next roofer who also quotes will need scaffolding too,so its a fairly level palying field.

The ones who tend not to use scaffolding seem to be the pikeys(gypsies)
and you cant price against them because you will be bankrupt be for the years out!

Health and safety in this country has gone sooooo over the top its untrue, you cant fart with out someone comming to check you have a certificate
for doing it right! but i understand why working at height is there number 1 target, the top accident rate in this country is falling from height so were target No.1
If we are thinking about the same equipment, they are commonly called "Chicken Ladders" over here.

Ed
 

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I get up about 60' or more, and I like scaffolding then too.
If we've got to do 60' for more than a repair we like to use man lifts.

I bid a 3 story 30 square tile mansard on a historic building for about $120k and am meeting the board on the 7th hopefully to close the sale. It's down to myself and one other, but they have more tile experience so I have to really WoW the board. Anyways the point is, we bid to do the whole thing on a cherry picker, with pedestrian scaffold in one 18' area so as not to block the sidewalk.
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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If we've got to do 60' for more than a repair we like to use man lifts.

I bid a 3 story 30 square tile mansard on a historic building for about $120k and am meeting the board on the 7th hopefully to close the sale. It's down to myself and one other, but they have more tile experience so I have to really WoW the board. Anyways the point is, we bid to do the whole thing on a cherry picker, with pedestrian scaffold in one 18' area so as not to block the sidewalk.
That's the way to do it Grumpy. I would have bid and planned that the same way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
So do you guys have a 60ft ladder to reach this height?
We use Cherry pickers and sissor lifts as well, but on the whole use walk though scaffolding for the side walk with over head protection so if anything falls hits that first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
God i bet they are Tinner! is it a 2/3 man job errecting them?
Ive got some triple aluminion ladders that go to about 35ft and there heavy enough.
 

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We rent 60' when we need them and always budget 3 men into the job, even though 2 are usually standing around picking their private parts, erm I mean "holding the ladder". 2 strong men can do it, Heck 1 strong man can do a 40 but it's not irregular for someone to ask for help with one.
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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2 men sure make it easier. One man has a hard time flipping it down off the ladder rack.

We were on a job once and the ladders had to be moved periodicly along a 60' wall. The others wouldn't touch the extended 60. I'd shift it so the top slid about 6', pick it up and run the bottom under the top. After we had finished for the day, I grabbed our 40 and almost tossed it over my head, it was so light!
 

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I bought and still own 2 of the 60 foot extension ladders for the Queen Anne with the Bell Tower Turret.

I got the rental price and figured about 5 days for 2 ladders and it came up to more than half of what it would have cost to buy them, so I added the equipment fee into the bid, so that job sort of paid for them.

By the way, it was Industrial Ladder Supply in Villa Park, that rented and sold them.

They are frigging heavy and it took 3 men to "Safely" set it up. On was at the top of the Bell Tower Turret pulling a rope and the others on the ground.

Ed
 
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