[Ed the Roofer]

Sales Presentation Tools, Gimmicks And What-Nots?
The attached thread topic from another forum and my response got me thinking about; What do successful sales closers bring with them to their sales presentation appointment when they meet with the prospective customer?


Ed


Quote:
BD Said:
Just bid two cabinet jobs and lost both. One I'm pretty sure was just because of price, hard to compete with Home Cheapo.

The other I'm pretty sure I lost because she couldn't see any of my cabinets in person. She wanted to touch and feel them and she was especially concerned with how the drawers work. I assured her she would be happy but I guess it wasn't enough.

I've only got a couple of cabinet jobs to look at but one is too far away and the others were commercial applications with no doors or drawers so that didn't do any good.

I've thought about building some demo cabinets just don't have the ambition to do them yet. The other problem is I can do such a wide variety of options it's impossible to build one or two cabinets and feature all the possibilities.

I've pointed out all the features such as all 3/4" plywood construction and optional full extension guides for an upcharge. Hidden hinges and real wood doors and face frames along with finished ends.

I've got to figure out how to sell them on my product. Since the market now tends to be more competitive especially on price. I'm in the ball park because I've asked. Within a few hundred dollars of the other bids but I think not having a demo is what kills me.

Any other ideas besides a demo cabinet to help me close the deal?

Seems to only be cabinets that I'm having a hard time with. Flooring is no problem as well as log handrails and my wood slabs.

Quote:
Ed The Roofer Said:
Seriously, make short snippet DVD's of some of the featured work and action accessories that you do.

For less than 1/2 a buck each, you can easily afford to drop off a DVD at each customers home to view while you are taking measurements.

Another great idea, is to have a photo slide show of videos loaded onto a Digital Photo Frame and have various different job applications loaded into different folders in the memory.

Click on the remote control and let the Photo Frame do your Pre-Sell for you while you are busy doing something else, or use it during your meeting for the sales presentation.

Ed

 

[Grumpy]

You know my opinion on closers. A true rpofessional that knows his trade and knows how to explain to a customer what is to be done, doesn't need to close, doesn't need gimicks or tricks.

I bring to the presentation a flip book of photos so I can show step by step what is to be done. I explain to the customer in words they can understand what we are doing. I don't focus so much on the shingle style or type because anyone can get the same shingles. I focus more on who we are and what we offer and where others may take short cuts.

That's it.

Interesting thing, today I got an email, obviously sent out to the other guys as well. It said that the customer has narrowed it down to the final 3. Lucky me It also said that the bids are due today at 5pm. However I also got a voice mail from the guy saying he wanted to meet me again saturday, so that's good news that the other guys get to fax but I get to meet again in person. However the point to this story is he basically summarized my proposal and asked the other guys to match my scope. I like it when that happens... So Saturday I am going to meet him, explain again what needs to be done. Bring my picture book as well as some samples and myself, and that's all I really need: Myself. I think what he's really looking for is a cheaper me.

 

[The Roofing God]

They`ve been doing that to me for years ,personally it`s what sets us apart from the run of the mill,and I don`t really care for people using my bid in an attempt to get the"same thing" cheaper than I do it,there`s a reason I quote the details I do,and I know how they get done right,other contractors lowbid you and then do a sloppy job-very low class thing for a homeowner to do-I should hang a roof consultant sign out,then set the criteria for bidding for people,let them know what`s needed vs. unnecessary,and then everyone can bid on a level field .vs people bidding,with ways to do it cheaper by cutting out important facets of the job-not a bad idea !

 

[Grumpy]

I don't see any problem with a home owner recogninzing my scope is best and trying to get an apples to apples comparison. After all I encourage them to always compare apples to apples. I explain my proposal will be detailed and explain to them the questions they should ask of other roofers. I even encourage my customers to get additional bids if there is a large differene between what I am bidding and what the other hack is bidding. You'll never see a closer saying "call someone else".

 

[The Roofing God]

I would think that ok when bidding against your peers,but with the large amount of uneducated,unknowledgeable bidders,oftentimes material you bid requires certain techniques,and finishing touches to make it right.---What the homeowner misses is that by doing that they are asking for problems because they`ll get "much" lower prices ,and "much" less quality-I also understand that when you lose a job to that,it can occasionally come back your way,because people remember the knowledge ,and quality of your presentation,,,but too often they fall into the habit of doing it all over again------I was thinking back to early america where you had learnung stages of employment, apprentice,journeyman,master craftsman---I tend to think that a contractor should have,or, have an understanding of ,and employ people worthy of being a master craftsman ,on each crew ,for the type of work being done,with that type of setup,you wouldn`t find so many lowballers,because they would be more cognizant of what`s involved in doing the job right,instead of merely eying the profit margin

 

[Grumpy]

That's the point TRG, you'll almost never see a more professionally written bid than mine.

The objections you mentioned are the exact objections I bring up, and answer, first before the customer can.

I no longer worry abotu losing a job to someone who is cheaper, no matter the scope of work. I gave that train of thought up this year and got back to my roots. These people would have never hired me in the first place no matter how professional and thurough I may be. So in short they never would have been my customer in the first place and if they are dead set on buying the lowest price, there is nothing I can do for them... so I am really not losing anything at all.

 

[The Roofing God]

mine are always the most detailed ,unless it`s gov`t spec,and then I have to see what isn`t right,and make the changes when necessary--Point remains-the h/o`s are giving away your intellectual property,and let people use your work to take the job away-they should just hire the more knowledgeable contractor who gives a better job day in ,and day out-than toss the dice hoping some lowballer will put together the same job using our specs-hence as a roofing consultant,you`re paid to asses the job,and then people can bid on a level playing field where guys like us will shine

 

[Grumpy]

Yes they should, but there will forever be cheapos. What are we going to do, force our customers into signing non disclosure agreements before we present them with our proposals?

The only consolation, is that typically the customer gets what they pay for. Let me explain a situation exactly like what you described...

I did an estimate earlier this year. I sat down witht he customer, and she was a PIA from the get go. She was mad I was 10 minutes EARLY for our scheduled appointment. Then said she had to take her kids to school and made me wait 30 minutes, essentially she was late 20 minutes for our appointment.

I spent a good 45 minutes to an hour with her. She was detail oriented writing much of what I had said down in a note book. Here are the key points I made... She had some algae staining so I suggested an AR shingle. She wanted a ridge vent, but had a newer attic fan so I suggested either removing the fan or not installing the ridge vent. I explained how we do the extra ice shield at the walls and took her otuside to show her.

So I get a call one day asking about the shingle brand witht he AR I had mentioned. And that's it, she says "Thanks bye, and hangs up." A few days later I drive by and see some other guys installing the roof with the shingle brand I mentioned... Going back to the only consolation is they get what they pay for... the roofer obviously had no problem selling her a ridge vent and keeping the fan in place.

Friggin morons, not only the roofer but the customer as well. But ahh the mold, premature failing shingles, and higher cooling bills will serve her right! Shoulda paid me the extra money to do it right in the first place. I couldn't have been that much more.

 

[Slyfox]

If you leave the power vent intact and run ridge vent with out cutting out the deck slot with in two lineal feet of either side of the power vent
so the two exhaust systems are not fighting one another than the two can operate at the same time with out creating a negative air flow.
'run ridge vent anyhow across that area just for looks'

AR or no AR the shingles will still leave you with a dirty roof later on in the years,
it will happen sooner with out AR but it will still happen,
thus AR is not something that determines quality of installment nor longevity.
'In my area manufacturers lowest item offered use to be 20 yr non AR,
but since 2000/01 their lowest now is 25 yr with AR, no non AR option.'

I'm not attempting to argue with grumpy or say he's wrong or anything like that with my statements,
just trying to give another view on certain things he mentioned.

Far as cutting prices, how's this scenario?
<> Instead of eliminating the existing box vents and installing ridge vents,
let's add to the existing system to bring it up to code.
" ridge vent works better than box vents, but box vents still work tho, and they can be made to meet code and manufacturer specs if installed properly"
So, am I a low baller for saving the home owner a couple hundred bucks by using the second best exhaust venting system on the market?

<> Instead of selling only Tamko, Certainteed, Gaf/Elk, etc.
I leave the shingle choice fully optional by presenting multiple brand name samples,
but I give a non wavering, non negotiable detailed list of installment procedures, underlayment and fasteners to be used, flashing materials etc.
So, am I a hack because I installed Atlas 30 yr 'that happen to be on sale'
instead of demanding Tamko 30's that are not?
"I have installed both brands with out problems"

Are home owners really cheapo's simply because they want to stay with in their budget instead of having to pull a loan or add to their credit card debt in order to get a good roof?

 

[Grumpy]

If you leave the power vent intact and run ridge vent with out cutting out the deck slot with in two lineal feet of either side of the power vent
so the two exhaust systems are not fighting one another than the two can operate at the same time with out creating a negative air flow.
'run ridge vent anyhow across that area just for looks'

Who gave you that bit of information? That goes against everything I have ever read or been told by the various ventilation and shingle manufacturers. Please forward some links substantiating those facts.

The reason I was pushing the AR was because she currently had streaking on the shingles which we both agreed was probably due to algae discolration. Obviously she agreed if she called me back asking me the shingle brand for the other roofer to use. Right or wrong, the point was she obviously perceived I had the best advice.

Yes Sly, home owners are cheapos when they go with the cheapest bid in order to stay within budget. I make this comparison: You are either pregnant or not. You are either doing the right job or the wrong job. There is zero gray area. Would beefing up the mushroom vents be wrong? No, not so long as it doesn't interfere with her precious ridge vent, but she was the one that asked for the ridge vent. In her case she out smarted her self and no doubtedly her roof's going to fail for it. But a couple hundred bucks?! C'mon it's almost break even to install ridge vent vs mushroom vents, when the proper quantity of mushroom vents are installed. Infact my salesmen are instructed to throw it in for free if it's better for the roof. We don't charge extra for ridge vent.

I offer Certainteed and tamko, I also offer GAF but don't really promote that fact. However I do tell them as part of my presentation process that that I can get them any shingle but prefer Certainteed and Tamko and explain why. I also tell them that a bad product they may request will affect my guarantee. I have to be confident with all the products I am installing so that I can sleep at night knowing I won't have to deal with a manufacturer issue. Would you be a hack for installing Atlas? Well I'll just say it's one of those products that would affect my guarantee.

 

[Ed the Roofer]

I know I have read from the Principles Of Attic Ventilation, that if there are 2 or more adjoining roof planes and one or more of them is More Than 3 Feet Lower than the higher ridge, then you should NOT consider installing a ridge vent on the lower ridges, UNLESS, you separate the connected attic compartments with a barrier to inhibit the air movement from one chamer to the next, else it will cause a short-circuiting dilemma.

That is possibly where Steve is coming from with his 3 foot theory on non-interference, but I am sure he will better explain his postion than Ijust did.

Ed

 

[Slyfox]

I know I have read from the Principles Of Attic Ventilation, that if there are 2 or more adjoining roof planes and one or more of them is More Than 3 Feet Lower than the higher ridge, then you should NOT consider installing a ridge vent on the lower ridges, UNLESS, you separate the connected attic compartments with a barrier to inhibit the air movement from one chamer to the next, else it will cause a short-circuiting dilemma.

That is possibly where Steve is coming from with his 3 foot theory on non-interference, but I am sure he will better explain his postion than Ijust did.

Ed

Thanks for the vote of confidence Ed,
This past week I was on an estimate 'repair job' in which the scenario of adding a power vent to a roof with ridge vent came up,
I told the home owner she should not do it,
A rep from Princeton construction said she could, and his explanation of how was word for word what I posted,
I knew he was wrong, but was still looking for you to back that up because with all the research you do I was sure if there was anything new on this type of situation you would have heard about it.

 

[Slyfox]

Who gave you that bit of information? That goes against everything I have ever read or been told by the various ventilation and shingle manufacturers. Please forward some links substantiating those facts.

The reason I was pushing the AR was because she currently had streaking on the shingles which we both agreed was probably due to algae discolration. Obviously she agreed if she called me back asking me the shingle brand for the other roofer to use. Right or wrong, the point was she obviously perceived I had the best advice.

Yes Sly, home owners are cheapos when they go with the cheapest bid in order to stay within budget. I make this comparison: You are either pregnant or not. You are either doing the right job or the wrong job. There is zero gray area. Would beefing up the mushroom vents be wrong? No, not so long as it doesn't interfere with her precious ridge vent, but she was the one that asked for the ridge vent. In her case she out smarted her self and no doubtedly her roof's going to fail for it. But a couple hundred bucks?! C'mon it's almost break even to install ridge vent vs mushroom vents, when the proper quantity of mushroom vents are installed. Infact my salesmen are instructed to throw it in for free if it's better for the roof. We don't charge extra for ridge vent.

I offer Certainteed and tamko, I also offer GAF but don't really promote that fact. However I do tell them as part of my presentation process that that I can get them any shingle but prefer Certainteed and Tamko and explain why. I also tell them that a bad product they may request will affect my guarantee. I have to be confident with all the products I am installing so that I can sleep at night knowing I won't have to deal with a manufacturer issue. Would you be a hack for installing Atlas? Well I'll just say it's one of those products that would affect my guarantee.

I already answered the question regarding vents in my response to Ed.

The AR remark, I was told that all manufacturers had stopped producing shingles with out AR nationally, obviously i was mis informed if you still offer it as a selling point.

The home owners saving money comment, my example,
couple months ago both ABC supply and Banners supply had Tamko H-30's on sale for 48.00 per square and some how the home owner knew this and asked ******* roofing about it while they were presenting an estimate, they said they knew nothing about that because they don't sale Tamko.
When I was there doing my estimate and was asked the same question,
I told them that was true but the sale was only on Weather Wood and Sabel black, they said they could live with Weather Wood instead of Drift Wood which is what they originally wanted, thus I saved them 14.00 per square on material on a 37 square roof '$518.00' which I found out later that my original estimate 350.00 higher than ******* and now was 168.00 less than theirs,
I don't think that makes them cheapo's,
I still made the same monies, they saved monies.
The only ones who lost was the roofer who told the home owner that tamko was an inferior product compared to what they sale.

Far as Atlas goe's,
I also explain the differences in brands,
some are what we call dirty shingles, some we call, DIY'r specials, etc.
But if your a good enough roofer to install Tamko 30's,
you should be able to install Atlas 30's as well.
I have pictures on my web site of Atlas, Certainteed and IKO shingle roofs as old as '93 and will be adding some more of my 1990's jobs over the next couple months.
There still holding up, so why would I not sale their products.

Edited to add:
Sorry, forgot i took those comparison pics down last week when I was changing things around on my site, will re-add them when I have the time.

 

[Ed the Roofer]

I would like to find the source utilized by ********* Construction so that I could see for myself if there are any studies I was not aware of.

Ed

 

[Slyfox]

AllExperts

AllExperts2

The guy told the lady that all experts say so.
I did a google search "ridge vent and power vent together" and the very first listing was ALLExperts.

Found this also today, while looking at the same search as shown above,
All Around Construction Inc.

Edited to add:
I should have left *** name out of this,
the lady told me *** Roofing, but when i searched for them on the web all i found was *** Construction.
Maybe she mis-spoke and meant construction, maybe there is a *** roofing, i don't know.
This was in Portage County, I have worked in that county 3 times through out all the 2000's so am not real familiar with the area.

 

[Ed the Roofer]

I edited out the name from my post, but you still mentioned it in your folow up, even after editing it out of your previous post.

Ed

 

[Slyfox]

Sorry, had a duh moment.

 

[Marke]

Slyfox -What is your reputation worth ? Stick with the big guns and if someone is going to choose you because you are 25 to 100 dollars cheaper then you missed the train on sales training. Work on that and develop a package not based on price alone but on benifits. How many jobs did you lose because you were the low baller and used second rate materials in your specifications. I bet you've lost more than you think-Good Luck

 

[Ansel]

Grumpy / Slyfox .....

Firstly if we are talking ventilation here the one thing we know is nothing works in the field the same as it does in the lab and ventilation is both an art and science .....

Grumpy, I tend to agree with Slyfox and sometimes Homeowners know more than us silly roofers (not) but that is a battle you can't fight ..... By shorting out the ridge vent for "X feet" on either side and making sure you have PLENTY of soffit ventilation to support there should not be a problem mixing the two .... heck, you could even set a thermostat high to prevent the fan from coming on 'cept in the hottest of weather ....

Is that right or correct - no ..... will it still work without you getting a callback, probably yes - and you could of probably used the customer's detailed personality to go with you, if you had wanted the job .....

A good point you do bring up is the idea we give the customer too much information - what we have started to do is to price the roof and ventilation separate and show the customer the warranty and tell them on the ventilation that it is a "Ventilation Package" that conforms to the "Warranty" and in fact we stand behind the roof if their claim is denied due to ventilation issues - Now understand we can only give this Warranty on homes that meet our ventilation and insulation standards - which often times leads to a quick $1,250 to $1,800 insulation sale added to the roof - but that is a whole other story ....

Best,
Ansel

PS .... The home Grumpy talks about would NOT be covered under the warranty with the MIXED system and that is something I would of pointed out but if she insisted sold her anyways with her knowing upfront there could be a problem .... but we would of installed per Slyfox using our judgment on how much / far to short out ridge vent - providing the house had plenty of soffit ventilation ..... Grumpy is this a hip or rake or ????