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Sales Manuals, Courses and Organizations.....Any Experience And Opinions?

24K views 54 replies 11 participants last post by  jamesfl 
#1 ·
I see organizations hawking their current versions of the Holy Grail of running a business or how to sell and "Leave Your Competition In The Dust" type titles.

So, has anyone here plucked down the $ 100.00 or $ 900.00 $ 5,000.00 dollars to subscribe or join any of these or to even just buy their magis sales formulas?

I am Not implying that their is no merit to them, just cutting through the advertising hype that most come with.

Okay, organizations like:

CCN, Certified Contractors Network
RSI, Roofers Success International
Any others?

Name the sales courses you have heard of, whether or not they were roofing specific or contractors in general.

I do recall reading through the, "How to Bid Higher Than Everyone Else and Still Get the Job" website and actually did get some good information from it, even from the free video on-line, but is it worth the dollars spent?

Offhand, I am going to guess that it wouldn't be a bad investment, but there is always some other expenses that come up to take priority.

What other courses and things have you either been tempted to, or actually bought into and were they worth it?

Ed
 
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#2 ·
Ed I'm glad you asked.

I went to RSI training for roofing sales and in my opinion it was for a "babe in the woods" I just love the idea of smoke, mirrors, and deception. Not to mention trying to put a customer in a choke hold to sign a contract.

LEGAL NOTE!
Confidentiality agreement is in place. This is for the previous employer who threatened to sue me for speaking out about this on the internet.




JAMES
 
#3 ·
Without divulging specifics of their training, what does the confidentiality agreement bind you from talking about?

Isn't most of the training and knowledge already public domain information?

I understand where you wouldn't be able to provide their copyrighted documents, but talking about sales systems and how to run a business is similar all throughout the world.

Ed
 
#4 ·
Once I figure out this business thing, probably 40 years from now when I ahve acheived all the goals I have set out to achieve, I too plan to setup my own little company providing information to contractors. The difference... it will be highly affordable, require no subscriptions or membership fees, and I won't broadcast it as a system that is the answer to all your prayers.

I think the flaw with most of these systems out there is that while they may offer good advice, alot are over priced. Like CCN for example. As best I can tell they have some valuable information, however the price tag is outrageous.


Just like you said Ed, there's always something more important to be paid first.
 
#6 ·
Ed,

you must be asking that question for a reason, would you mind sharing what it is?
Not anything specific, but every darned time you turn around, someone else wants to sell you the next proven miracle of success.

So, are any of them the Real Deal and MORE THAN Worth The Money???

Ed





I saw the coolest thing on some internet sales pitch site just a little while ago.

Read This. I nice piece of honesty for a change:

Looking For a Guarantee?
My guarantee is worded differently than most. I've tried as much as possible to NOT make promises on this page. In fact, my primary goal here was to provide so much value on the sales letter that it would make most actual marketing products look like crap. And in a lot of cases, it does...
In other words, I'm selling my blueprint, and as much as possible I'm trying not to package it as "HOPE".
So here's where I stand: In business and in real life, there ARE no guarantees - period. Buying my blueprint will not make you rich - even though using it might...
Also, you need to understand that successful people don't get to where they are by leeching off of others or whining and kicking until they get their way. Instead, they take responsibility for their actions, learn from their mistakes, leverage the power of other people's experience and persist until they reach their goals.
It's the same with investing in education.
Now, I can't really say "No Refunds" with a straight face - because you probably don't know me, and you'd rather avoid risk whenever possible, and so would I. If you buy my blueprint and it doesn't help you or live up to what's presented here on this page, then I'll honor your refund request - obviously...
In fact, you have a full 8 weeks (56 days) to use my blueprint, risk-free.
But What I CAN Say is This:
If the deciding factor for your purchase is the fact that you can get a refund if it doesn't somehow magically "make you rich" - then please don't purchase my blueprint.
Becuase if that's the case, you're not investing in your business - you're simply looking for a quick-fix to a problem that has much deeper roots than what my product aims to solve...




And then at the closing of the sales letter, where most sites offer a Tonight Only or Offer Ending Soon Sense Of Urgency to get you to decide quick and buy, he says:



P.S. Normally, this is where I'm supposed to add in a bunch of (fake) price-increase warnings, urgency and in general, some strong hype to try and push you over the edge.
Instead, I'll just be realistic by saying this: The more action you take, the more money you'll make.
Depending on your situation, then maybe my blueprint will be a major step forward in the right direction. Only you know the answer to that. But I'm going to close by saying that if you honestly know that this could seriously help you - don't put it off. Go for it - you won't be disappointed...
 
#7 ·
Salesman or Quote man?

I guess you would first have to decide if you want to be a salesman or a quote man. If all you want to do is “quote & hope” you don’t need any sales training.

The average close ratio is around 1 out of 3 for this industry. IF you are good at what you do and keep your promises you can be average without sales training. However if you want to be better than average it may require some effort, preparation and training on your part.

I’ve bought various training materials; audio, video, books & live training. I learn something from all of them.

If I learn even one small thing that helps me it’s worth it. When you add many small things together then you can start closing sales that you might not have been able close before.

Here’s a list of some that I recommend.

Dave Yoho & his son David Allan Yoho
Rodney Webb
 
#9 · (Edited)
Prosult

I joined Prosult for 1 year and dropped out. Prosult is a networking group for contractors run by Monroe Porter. I think they charged around $2500 per year to be a member and they wanted more for sales training.

I didn’t like the group mentality so I quit. I was the only contractor in my group using subs and they made me feel like a black sheep. It’s not like I’m unfamiliar with the”employee only” model; I did it that way for 14 years.

They also wanted me to get an office manager and that just didn’t work out for me. My wife helps me part time and she opposed the idea. I think it would have just increased my overhead and not my profit.

They were all marching in lockstep to everything dictated by Monroe. I’m not much of a conformist or a kiss-ass so I just didn’t fit in. They wanted me to act like I needed “the group” or I wouldn’t make it.

The mandatory annual conference was held in October and that didn’t make sense to me because October is always my busiest month.
 
#16 ·
I joined Prosult for 1 year and dropped out. Prosult is a networking group for contractors run by Monroe Porter. I think they charged around $2500 per year to be a member and they wanted more for sales training.

I didn’t like the group mentality so I quit. I was the only contractor in my group using subs and they made me feel like a black sheep. It’s not like I’m unfamiliar with the”employee only” model; I did it that way for 14 years.

They also wanted me to get an office manager and that just didn’t work out for me. My wife helps me part time and she opposed the idea. I think it would have just increased my overhead and not my profit.

They were all marching in lockstep to everything dictated by Monroe. I’m not much of a conformist or a kiss-ass so I just didn’t fit in. They wanted me to act like I needed “the group” or I wouldn’t make it.

The mandatory annual conference was held in October and that didn’t make sense to me because October is always my busiest month.
I considered joining Monroe, but what I learned is that he's so specialized in what he's doing he is closed off to doing it any other way. I don't like his way of doing it and after speaking with him on the phone I picked up pretty quick that's he's cocky and arrogant, and I can see how you were made to feel like a black sheep. He didn't want to help me achieve my goals, he wanted to set new goals for me to achieve and then help me achieve them his way.
 
#11 ·
Not counting the influence done to the industry from the economy, was the membership worthwhile prior to the Great Recession?

What did you see that he.they personally gained from becoming a member, once the sales pitch star-dust wore off?

Ed
 
#12 ·
rsi response

The only thing I liked was the preprinted marketing letters. Detail about roof failures etc.

I disliked the "group" theory discussed above, as well as the strictly scripted sales pitch(2 hours long).

I think you could make your own marketing letters for far less than the cost of membership in RSI.


James
 
#13 ·
Thats what is sounded like to me, but I was willing to allow the possibility of them offering something of much more substance that would make a 1/2 price version of the membership more worthwhile.

Ed
 
#14 ·
I'm active in the FRSA (Florida Roofing and Sheetmetal Assn.). It is a great group of people and does a lot of good for the industry.

We are taking the lead in disaster preparedness, the state is supportive of our goals, to be able to work together to protect lives and property in the case of an event. I strongly encourage every Roofing professional in Fl to join and get involved.

There are affiliate origination's broken down by regions so there is a local meeting near you, if you need contact info let my know. Our local affiliate is the VFRSA (Volusia and Flagler Counties Roofing and Sheetmetal Assn.) in which I am the currant VP of.

The next meeting Feb 18 is about Workers Comp and the proposed 6.5% increase and the possibility of another 10% on top of that. This has to do with more than just roofing so we've invited the Home Builders Assn. Pres. to attend and other organizations. The meeting is at Red Lobster monthly, $20 covers the meeting and diner... Last month we did a CE Credit on tile hip and ridge attachment. I think it's a good way to give some back to the trade that gives to me....

Alfy
 
#15 ·
I joined Prosult when I changed from being stictly new construction to in-home sales.

They have helped me a lot. It has been well worth my investment. The guy that runs it can come off as being a little bit brash, but all of his advise has been spot on.

At the meetings everybody's numbers for the year are on the table. So there ain't no B.S. The last day you set goals for next year and you are held accountable for them.

They have a bulletin board on-line for the members. You don't see the fighting and insulting going on there becuase you have to meet with these people.

To sum it up I would say that there is just so much knowlege in the groups and everybody really seems to care. I have learn more in a short period of time than most guys learn in decades on their own.
 
#18 ·
Grumpy,when you hire a consultant he is there to tell you the things you need to hear,not what you want to hear.If you look long enough you will find a consultant to work with that will say"Great" to all of your ideas.The diifference is Monroe and your board of directors helps you step back,fix some of the existing problems,help you figure out if the original goals are realistic,then help you build a sustainable long term plan for success.If YOU cannot check your ego at the door it will not work for you.It is like going to therapy for your biz.

I was at the meeting with Jack.If you come to a meeting and tell us that you have low ball compitition,want to move into new market area to expand,with aplan on how you are going to sell your way out of dispair by doing more estimates but not focus raising prices or on closing higher %,and everyone in the room,not 1, not 1/2, everyone in the room questions your strategy you should think twice about it.Jack was combative and didnt hear word one.After that daily session was over he packed that evening and left woith 2 days left.He wanted confirmation that he was correct,not help in finding out if his goals were correct.
 
#20 ·
Serrano,

Please post an Introduction thread.

Your name seems familiar. Either from a good website I saw, or from a CCN members list, or elsewhere on another forum.

Where was that Prosult meeting you and Jack were at together?

Ed
 
#25 ·
I was just trying to create some open ended dialogue to spark some ideas from this forum, so that it doesn't become stagnated from a lack of viable topics.

I hope there is no real hard feelings between you guys.

Was the Prosult meeting in your State Jack?

How does Serrano know you from just your user name?

Is that other Forum closed, for their members only?

Supposedly, so is CCN's and RSI's, but I have been able to post in both of those when I wanted to. They willingly gave me full access, just for asking.

Ed
 
#27 ·
I was just trying to create some open ended dialogue to spark some ideas from this forum, so that it doesn't become stagnated from a lack of viable topics.

I hope there is no real hard feelings between you guys.

Was the Prosult meeting in your State Jack?

How does Serrano know you from just your user name?

Is that other Forum closed, for their members only?

Supposedly, so is CCN's and RSI's, but I have been able to post in both of those when I wanted to. They willingly gave me full access, just for asking.

Ed
The meeting was in Virginia.

I don't now how he knows who I am.

They have a closed forum. As I recall it was fiarly active.
 
#26 ·
By the way, those CCN and RSI Forums are pretty much Dead. It is only about once per week or two that someone even bothers making a new post or thread on either one of them.

Pretty poor showing from their members, if you ask me.

Ed
 
#28 ·
Yeah their forum is fairly active.

I totally agree that you should take in knowlege from all resourses available.

I will be looking for David Yoho on Amazon.

IMO Prosult has been well worth every dime and every second that I have spent.
I looked at alot of different organizations before I joined Prosult. I beleive that I made the right decesion in joining with them.

I'm not sure where the idea that they are opposed to everybody using subs came from. I was told that I need to start subbing more of my work out. Maybe its different advice for different companies.

What ever you decide to do, I think you need to go at it with an open mind. Don't expect overnight miricales.
 
#29 ·
What ever you decide to do, I think you need to go at it with an open mind. Don't expect overnight miricales.
My experience is simply a 15 minute conversation I had with Monroe on the phone. I didn't expect over night miracles but I expected an open ear.

He was very quick to judge me during that conversation. Therefore I am equally as judgemental of him. Admittedly I just said I have had a 15 minute experience with him, and he with me. He made me feel like chit in that 15 minutes, even suggested I'd go out of business without his help, and soon. I really don't know how he came to those judgements since he wouldn't let me finish a single sentance.

I do need help, we all do, but I do not need HIS. I'm not saying his service is of no value. I'm sure he is helping a tremendous number of people. However his service is definetly not for me. Maybe more accurately put, HE is not the person to help me.
 
#30 ·
That sounds very much like the first conversation that I had with him.
At the end of the phone call, I thought the guy was just arrogant.

I did however like the concept of Prosult.\

What I found out latter was that most of what he was saying was right on target. Some of it took 8 months for me to find out on my own, but it was true.

Now when he said that I will probably go under soon, I thought he was crazy. Now when I look back at what I was trying to do, I think he was right. I'm not saying that its true in your case . And now that I have heard what you told you, it sounds like thats his sales pitch. But in my case, I was a new construction contractor. I operated at a high volume with low margin. With the housing market slow, I decided to go after public bid work and also more builder work with an estimator. Also I wanted to go after in-home sales with a salesman. Problem was I didn't know my numbers. I did know what MOST everybody around town was charging.

Now that I've seen quite a few of my competitors go under this past year, I am glad that I did join and that I have not just Monroe, but my board of directors, Dan Koehler, and all the other resources available to me thru our organization.

That is just my experince.

I joined NRCA, and MRA and some local trade organizations. I don't feel I got any real value out of any of them.
 
#31 ·
I'm a member of the NRCA. Every time it's time for renewal I question why I am doing it. I mean their saftey stuff and resources are great, from the production side of things. They don't offer much in the way of management assistance, other than their future roofign exectives institute. I looked into that,a nd as best I can gather I pay a few K a year to meet up and chit chat with some other roofers twice a year, once in chicago and once in vegas. My personal opinion is that trade orginizations are more for production management than business management.
 
#32 ·
I was told by many people in the forums not to join RSI. I am glad that I did. Any time I say all the reasons that I am glad I joined then, everybody says I am trying to sell RSI to them. I know people in CCN, RSI, and ProSult. If you own a roofing company, then RSI is the way to go. James, I have heard you speak on the forums about how the sales class is like holding someone in a chokehold. Did you actually ever go there? I believe it is the opposite of high pressure sales tactics. I am a member. You can go to a profit days to get more info. If you don't think it was worth you time they give you 250.00 or something like that. If you sign up as a member and go to one of their Expo's that is every six months. You get all your money back, no strings attached, if you want. I can't recall anyone leaving that showec up to the expo.

Ed, you are a good friend of mine. Do yourself a favor and go to the profit days, and an expo. Decide for yourself. Don't listen to peoples opinions on something that they don't know anything about.

Kyle Brink
 
#33 ·
How much is it?

I was told by many people in the forums not to join RSI. I am glad that I did. Any time I say all the reasons that I am glad I joined then, everybody says I am trying to sell RSI to them. I know people in CCN, RSI, and ProSult. If you own a roofing company, then RSI is the way to go. James, I have heard you speak on the forums about how the sales class is like holding someone in a chokehold. Did you actually ever go there? I believe it is the opposite of high pressure sales tactics. I am a member. You can go to a profit days to get more info. If you don't think it was worth you time they give you 250.00 or something like that. If you sign up as a member and go to one of their Expo's that is every six months. You get all your money back, no strings attached, if you want. I can't recall anyone leaving that showec up to the expo.

Ed, you are a good friend of mine. Do yourself a favor and go to the profit days, and an expo. Decide for yourself. Don't listen to peoples opinions on something that they don't know anything about.

Kyle Brink
What is the annual fee for RSI
 
#35 ·
Hi Ed,

You have always had an open mind and have been supportive of whatever my choices have been. You always give good advice. Ed, Check out my website we started to put together. brinkroofingcompany.com It has a lot of stuff from RSI. Ed Asner video, Linda Gray video, etc. The website still needs a lot of work, but it is pretty cool.
 
#36 ·
I saw it several months ago when I was checking out some other FootBridge Work.

It looks nice, but I think videos should only come on when a person wants to click on them.

Man, Ed Asner is looking old these days.

Ed
 
#37 ·
Kyle,

Check out your Repair Vs Replace link.

Is "Hackman" supposed to be in that line?

repairvsreplace.com/shingleQuiz.aspx?dc=HACKMAN Roofing, Siding & Spouting&ad=1593 South Mount Joy St&dealercity=Elizabethtown&sp=PA&ph=***-367-2348

I asterisked over your area code.

What did you need to do, Besides Spend Money, to get the Green Certified title and video?

Ed
 
#38 ·
quote: James, I have heard you speak on the forums about how the sales class is like holding someone in a chokehold. Did you actually ever go there?


Kyle,

Yes I went to the sales training class. I have always been a top producing salesman, why should I throw away all that works for ME and start over again with all the "mastery of roofing sales" that RSI pitches. I quit the company I worked for after they became RSI members, I had a job with their competitor one hour later. They couldn't wait to hire me. I think if you are new to roofing sales, then you may do OK with it.

I don't like what I would say is smoke and mirrors about the types of material you sell. The same roof RSI would have me call a special name( I don't know if I can say the name here) is the exact same roof I sell today for my new employer. My RSI former employer covertly obtained all the competitors bids to use in the sales pitch for RSI, at RSI's suggestion. Is that ethical?

Kyle, I'm glad you find some use out of the program, How much is it up front and monthly these days?
 
#39 ·
I was involved rsi. :thumbdown:In my opinion I would save my money. They try to use the same business model for hvac and apply it to the roofing business and say the 2 trades are the same in structure(?) Business picked up after the company left rsi and changed our system.
 
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