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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Gentlemen
Im looking at a small roof replacement.It a 12x17 approx 4 pitch it has 3 sky lite with maybe 5-6'' in between the units my question is would you cut the shingle exposure to 4'' on a roof like this?
The roof terminates at a stucco end wall with a dbble window about 6'' above the roof line,the end wall flashing is heavy ga aluminum .there is a vented soffit but no end wall venting would that shingle over vent work at the top end wall?The sky lite units are large about 3'x3' the homeowner wants to replace any manufacturer preference?
 

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Roofing Relapse
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That's an old school method which pretty much died out with the popularity of ice shield. Infact when speaking with manuf reps they say it'll void their warranty. You're better off ice shielding the entire surface first before reducing an exposure.

For a wal vent, you may try the Air Vent, Flash-Filter vent. I have used it before.

I prefer velux skylights. Theyt will do custom sizes in some of their product lines.
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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I use i and W, then reduce the exposure. I have a couple of trouble free Elks on 4" and 5" exposure.

The manufacturers know the shingles are worthless and want to RELY on the I&W, not the roof.

This is a 3/12 the GC insisted I shingle on HIS house. Elks at 4". with I&W, and 'Dutch-Lapped' 4" tp 6". No butt joints. 9 years old. Up to 17" of snow. [url]http://rcs.si-sv2628.com/show_album_photo.asp?userid=30&AlbumID=288&file=1976&s=0[/url]

I love Elks at 5". The sealer strip lands on the flatest part of the shingle.
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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I should have also mentioned this job. It's GAF or GP. I forget.
Fully Dutch-Lapped and the exposure went from full down to about 3-3/4" in keeping the lines straight. The Reps also came to the job several times and I'm sure they have their own pics stored somewhere.

[url]http://rcs.si-sv2628.com/show_album_photo.asp?userid=30&AlbumID=108&file=764&s=0[/url]

I have been certified by all of them at some time or another. Fancy toilet paper. They all know I think their product is crap now! :laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
so Frank you do reduce exposure with i&w ? and could you please explain dutchlaped shingles? thanks tom
 

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Overlapping the butt edges of the shingles by 3" to 6".

They used to make 3 tab shingles look like architectural shingles before any architecturals were ever made.

Franks measurements may vary. He's a wild man with asphalt shingles.

Ed
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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No butt joints Tom. I did that to my own house.
I was going to make it rougher looking with 3" to 6" random tabs all over the place, but that got old in a hurry. So, I decided to save that for where I found joints in the 1x6's. When I found a joint in the nail line, I face nailed about 1" lower and slid tabs in, nailed about the nail line, with a tiny dab of caulk on the nail to act as a seal down.

Finished the roof the day before the hurricane and it hadn't even sealed when the hurricane hit.
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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Ed's right about the 3-tabs. Another thing was that I wanted a dimensional roof on my house. Elks and Timberlines butted look almost as flat as a 3-tab.

Some of my stuff was learned by................................................................................................. 'JackLegs'!:eek:
Over the tears, I've seen many lapped edges and walls instead of cut shingles. Looks like crap to me. BUT, no leaks occurred!

The reps used to come to the shop and we'd sit around for a few hours discussing techniques, pros and cons. I've even done 'special order' jobs for some of those GAF, Certaineed, other reps.

Concenus was; Lapping was good at times, increased headlap, and never caused leaks.( I wouldn't thing of doing that on a 3-tab).
A lapped Elk has 8" of headlap!.

Used a water hose on one, from the side, The water that squeezed through had an uninterupted trip down and out, without any sideways travel, since the lap created a 1/8" trough.

Ed knows me by now. I use I&W, but don't rely on it. Too many now RELY on it! Properly done, even a large storm won't make a roof leak if it's done over planks without underlay. Installation is the biggest cause of call-backs, not lack of I&W.
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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Yes it does. I get requests to do the same for others. Adds about 30% more labor. You wouldn't believe how much trouble it is keeping track of laps, nails, patterns, etc.

I learned fast to leave both shingle ends un-niled until I had decided whether the adjoining shingle should go under or over! To keep the humps from growing, I tear off any 'double-lams' that are on the shingle I'm laying on top of.:blink: Gets kinda crazy!
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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Not always Tom. It requires laying out the shingles all over the area to soften first. Even to Cal-cut one, 1/2 of them need to be laid out to soften.

Manufacturer did sign off grumpy. They always do. Not that it matters,IMHO. They're going to duck any responsibility if they can. I've been around that tree too.
FWIW, no tech that writes that crap has ever been on a roof and hasn't a real clue.
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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PS- 5" exposure on Elks makes the water drip off from one to the other, along with the better seal down properties, instead of wicking so bad.
Butt joint allow a LOT of water between the shingles. Sometimes, they get overwhelmed and leak there. I fixed many of them too.
 

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They're going to duck any responsibility if they can. I've been around that tree too.
FWIW, no tech that writes that crap has ever been on a roof and hasn't a real clue.
Agreed and agreed, but when I sit in a court of law and say "Your honor I installed it exactly as the manufactyrer stated in good faith that they know how to install their product." The point is I want limited liability should there be a failure of any kind. If youa re getting the manufacturer to literally "sign" off that's great. If you are getting a verbal "Um yeah that should be ok", I pray for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
this is the roof that im looking at sno on the roof but you get the idea.She wants to change out the sky lites and re do the roof,i was hoping to get some venting at the wall but that hard coat stucco scares me and the left side of that window dont look to good any advice?
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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If possible, I'd make single a U shaped, (With squared bends, of course), piece of flashing to fit between the 2 skylites. Make the top wider than the bottom for a loose fit at bottom, (1/2" total play is OK, it won't bind in hot weather.) I also believe, I'd make a pan that extends all the way from one end of thoase skylights to the other. Any joint in the center will be headed for trouble! A single pan could also be 'notched' and folded to allow water down the middle without harming the integrity of the back pan. With or without the notch, that's the weak point. On reflection, I'd turn up 8"-12", and at the center, use the'extra' metal to literally close/cap the weak spot off. That would be first choice. There would be a small 3tablespoon bed of caulk at the 2 outside corners and one crossing the open to set the pan into.

More in a moment.
 

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Slate and Metal Roofer
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Slate and Metal Roofer
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Agreed and agreed, but when I sit in a court of law and say "Your honor I installed it exactly as the manufactyrer stated in good faith that they know how to install their product." The point is I want limited liability should there be a failure of any kind. If youa re getting the manufacturer to literally "sign" off that's great. If you are getting a verbal "Um yeah that should be ok", I pray for you.
Agreed again grumpy. But the metal book says to cut the panels off and add Z-bar. Screw that. I bow fold and then add a Z-bar, or sometimes a locking strip attached across the ridges and a ridge locked to it.

Their stated reason? Nobody will take the time to do it right. That's why my bids seem to have no relation to other bids on many jobs. :laughing:

Same for the shingle suppliers. Like I said we used to hang together and hash ideas, causes and effects for hours.

Did you know they claim that bending a shingle to nail under it will crack most of the fibers? If it isn't lifted with an almost straight lift, as opposed to a 'decent' bend, that one just got ruined. :eek:

Anybody seeing this thread and not in the know, grump and I aren't arguing, we're discussing and debating this.
 
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