Roofing Talk - Professional Roofing Contractors Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it ok to install a 30yr architectural shingle over an existing 20yr fiberglass shingle on a 6/12 roof. the roof that is on there is in ok shape and the only reason the customer wants to change the roof is because a tree feel on part of the roof and thought might as well replace the whole thing. just wondering if anybody has done it in the past or do you HAVE TO tare off? didnt think it should be done but on the bundle of shingles it has instructions for re-roofing. thank you.
 

·
Roofing Relapse
Joined
·
2,556 Posts
Define "OK". Acceptable by code? Maybe. Call your local code department. Many municipalities around here do allow it but each year more and more are requiring tear offs. In addition the City of Chicago who used to allow 3 layers lowered that to 2 layers maximum. Maybe in another 20 years they will begin to require tear offs too.

If you ask me, no a layover on a sloped roof is not "ok". Why? Sloped roofs are designed to shed water, but if you are simply installing shingles over shingles, which is what a lay-over is, then you are not doing anything to defend against backup to that system. Ice damning, wind driven rains, flashings, ventilation... In addition there could be bad wood beneath the original roof, how can you fix that if you don't tear off the old roof. If you don't fix the bad wood, the new roof will just blow away.

What does the customer want. You said "replace" the whole thing. To me "replace" means tear off. I always assume the customer wants a tear off unless they specifically tell me otherwise. I always start my presentation by explaining how we are going to protect before tearing off then explain we look for rotten wood when we tear off. At this point if they don't want a tear off, they let it be known. I then try to talk them into a tear off explaining why, showing them pictures of rotten wood. If they refuse, ok, but I tried.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
Get him to sign an RCV Contingency agreement with you and guarantee that if you get the job approved via his home owners insurance policy for the amount equal to what a "Like Kind And Quality" roof replacement would cost, due to not being able to repair the old shingles and not being able to uniformly match the colors, that he would be responsible for his required deductible and fees for the upgraded roof.

The insurance coverage should cover the cost of removal and replacement for him.

Ed
 

·
jason
Joined
·
45 Posts
Plus didn't u say a tree fell on the roof in that case there prob some wood repair so u need to tear off at least that section of roof. But Grumpy and Ed are right u should always tear the roof off then u can find out if there is any problems u need to address. But thats my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
The biggest question you should be asking is, "do I want a good top quality job or just a so-so job?"A top quality job starts with a tear off to determine how good the decking is. And replace any/all problem wood. PERIOD!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
If the roof is in ok shape; no major curling, no missing shingles, no leaks,etc a new layer should be ok. Replace vents and soil pipe boots and tear off the ridge caps. Indiana allows 3 layers but i would never recommend. We have done work for H.O.A.s and P.o.a.s. Education to them is the key.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
No covers. Ever. All those reasons above and one more... Your pride and the right to say you do things right. HO's will respect flat out refusals of "covers" and imagine after the ability to collect any money for any additional work required to do the work properly and give a warrantee on your work? Walk away... walk away and shake your head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
I agree with alot said here. i will never do a recover 1 you put a 30 year shingle that will last 16 to 20 years at best. it will cook from behind. SO if the guy is planing on staying there for the rest of his life i would either do what ed said or tear offf or see yea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Is it ok? In some areas, at least according to building codes - yes. In all areas, according to common sense, concern for your reputation and the overall quality of the job for your customer - never!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
By Code you can shingle over existing shingles if it is only one prior layer in Most areas. That Being said, it would be hard to find a roofing company that will want to put their shingles over existing shingles if the insurance company payed to tear off the shingles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
never

I would never think of doing such a thing. i would explain why its wrong to do 2 layers to the h.o and if he still wants 2 layers turn him down...i have because im afraid someone is going to drive by and see me doing a butch job. Only problems come out of doing that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
I believe that more recent IRC code specifies certain parts of the country as hail prone and, in those areas, it is mandatory to t/o all and start fresh.
 

·
RFN 4A LVN
Joined
·
192 Posts
So you guys will walk away from a recover? I have done several in 2010 a couple for some ACV's ,,I have done some for mortgage companies and banks on some foreclosures.,do I like recovers.,not at all I think its a cheap way to go, but alot of families cannot afford a complete build so they have to do what they can afford, from our stand point we can see the big picture but if a guy has a leaky roof and he has children that need clothes,shoes and food and his wife is working at a nursing home working for peanuts, and he did make good money at one time but lost his job because his company that he worked for respectfully thought it would be in their best interest to move to mexico or somewhere else where the US government cannot break the backs of manufacturing plants and smash the american dream of small business.,then yes I will gladly do a recover.I would rather do a complete build of course but we are in a business of roofing and recovers are a part of it.I have done about 1500-2,000 recovers and have not had problems with my roofs blowing away, but what I have done, if the roof has been leaking then most of the time I will repair the leak along with the saturated/rotted decking then recover it.And I am not saying that I will tear off and entire section roof it then recover it.,problem areas being valleys,vents,flashings and pitch breaks.,and when I do a recover I replace vents, step flashings,pipe flashings all roof accessories etc. It is just like anything else if you won't do it someone else will.,and personally why would you want to waste a nice 30yr shingle ? Its like driving a Z06 on rims.
________
VOLCANO VAPORIZERS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Roofmaster417

I understand what you're getting at, but...

If there is a situation where I know the HO (retail job) has financial problems or a senior with little money, I'd be willing to give them a break on the pricing and still do a full R&R because thats the right way to do it.

Even repairing an obvious bad area then roofing over doesn't help anyone and it might hurt the roofer as well as the contractor when other unforseen problem areas eventually present themselves

If the local or other code says T/O, it's automatically a tear off, regardless.
 

·
Public Adjuster
Joined
·
116 Posts
I have yet to see one that doesn't have nails backing or popping. There is too much room between the 2 layers of shingles, the seat head, and the decking for expansion and contraction to occur. They will unseat. Also, I rarely get on a roof that doesn't need some major flashing changes. On a recover, most just go up to the chimney, butt to it, and silicone it. Silicone lasts 5 to 7 years tops around here in a heavy expansion/contraction area. I just don't agree with recovers. I won't throw darts at anyone who does them, it's just my opinion.
 

·
RFN 4A LVN
Joined
·
192 Posts
Finally some replies for my replies. I completley agree with a complete build for several reasons other than the obvious(better money) I have had Homeowners that I have given price reductions and would do it again without thought but some nuts cannot be cracked (HO's) When I do a roof inspection and all damages fall within the guidelines for a rebuild by the insurer then I will ONLY do what the insurer allows.,reason for that insurance fraud, I have had HO's try to convince me to recover then turn in my final as a rebuild.,not happening unethical and illegal.,besides with a customer like that your relationship is ruined by deceit right out of the gate. I have helped many HO's by reroofing for the price of a recover and ONLY then I made that choice a few moments before signing the contract.,I do that for the elderly.,the handicap and our beloved veterans.And a reply to the questioning of repair then a recover that is to insure that the rotted or saturated decking/insulation or other structural liabilties are addressed.,I have done this and had the HO's realize the severity of the situation and determine that a reroof is warranted. I am honest and fair with my customers in explaining the condition of they're roof system,absolutley a reroof is the ONLY way to insure that any and all
problems forseen and unforseen can be taken care of at once. And I have roofed recovers only to be called a several years later for a reroof due to storm damage and have not seen nails backed out etc.But I could see that on a plywood deck but unfortunately here in S.W Missouri 1x's are dominate. I understand everyones point and I agree but in the same token situations arise financially for HO's and rather than revolting or standing firm against a recover I will explain in detail the pro's and con's when choosing a recover versus a reroof. If I just walk away tight lipped then I have become part of the problem instead of a problem solver,and no I don't get emotional and buy into alot of the B.S the HO's try to send at me but I will not walk away from a situation to better my business and my families way of life ONLY IF its legal,ethical and noone is negatively effected by my decisions, and also ALL of my recovers all vents,ridgevents,pipe flashing,step flashing are replaced.And codes I know codes and abide by them but to give a little insight on the roofing here last year multiple counties in S.W missouri adopted the 2-layer max.,which is the law but I redecked a house last year that had 11 layers.,yep 11 :thumbup:
________
Coach handbags
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top