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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I’d like to compare 2 things, the quantity of materials that you come up with for each item and the price that you are paying for each item.

The sketch is of a typical Colonial style home. The large section in the middle is 2 stories and the other sections are 1 story.

Just pretend that you went up on the roof and put your tape measure on it and got these measurements. Then do an estimate like you normally would and add in your waste factors. Then produce a list of materials that you would need for the job along with the price of the materials without sales tax.

To make sure we are comparing apples to apples do your estimate with the same materials that I have listed even if they are materials than you would not use.

Here are the specs:

· Name of Shingle; CertainTeed Landmark, 30 year
· Hip and Ridge Material shall be same color and warranty as the shingles.
· Precut Starter Shingles shall be installed on all edges of the roof.
· Installation of felt paper shingle underlayment. Type: 15 lb.
· Waterproofing underlayment shall be installed at all eave edges (including garage). The ice shield shall be 6 feet wide.
· Valleys shall have a layer of ice and watershield 3 feet wide and be covered by the shingles.
· Remove and replace plumbing vent pipe flashings with new aluminum flashings and flash with ice and watershield.
· Install large face aluminum drip edge on all edges of roof.
· New step flashing at walls.
· The ventilation system for this project will consist of the following: OmniRoll ridgevent. (exclude reverse gable)
· Install 1 bathroom fan vent, pipe not included.

Ok, I found my mistake here is my updated total.
My total material cost would be $4075.35.
 

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Lol, your list is showing 45 square and I come up with 35 and your paying more than me in materials.
I pay $73.50 for Land Marks and $41.00 for Shadow Ridge.

Maybe I'll look back here later after a couple more cups of coffee and figure out what I'm missing on my numbers.
 

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Jack,
You know I only use IKO! LOL

I got 35 square too. I will send out a email for a price list on your quantities as I am getting calls from suppliers for free lunches so I am guessing they are bored. I tried the calling the local yard, and you will love this, "CertainTeed, really? Special order.... we got IKO's"

Its a funny thing up here, I called I will let you know on Monday. I am curious to any price difference regionally. Without Googling, where do they make those?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Waste factor

My waste factor must be higher than yours. I’m adding in for waste when the shingles are trimmed at the edges and walls, plus there is some overlap with the closed valley.

My estimating system rounds up to the next highest square. For example if it’s 40.33 squares it will round up to 41 square. I want to make sure the crew doesn’t run out of material that’s why I don’t try to cut my estimates real close.

I recently increased my waste factors because we came up short on material a few times last year.

Here’s how I do it.

On a gable roof I add 2 feet to the length. For example the section that measures 44 feet gets estimated at 46 feet.

For valleys I take the length of the valley and multiply by 3.

I add 3% waste factor to the whole estimate and round up to the next highest square.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Updated prices

Lol, your list is showing 45 square and I come up with 35 and your paying more than me in materials.
I pay $73.50 for Land Marks and $41.00 for Shadow Ridge.

Maybe I'll look back here later after a couple more cups of coffee and figure out what I'm missing on my numbers.
Have you checked with your supplier for current prices?

We just had another increase here about a week ago. I bought them for les than what you are paying a couple weeks ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Use IKO for your estimate

Jack,
You know I only use IKO! LOL

I got 35 square too. I will send out a email for a price list on your quantities as I am getting calls from suppliers for free lunches so I am guessing they are bored. I tried the calling the local yard, and you will love this, "CertainTeed, really? Special order.... we got IKO's"

Its a funny thing up here, I called I will let you know on Monday. I am curious to any price difference regionally. Without Googling, where do they make those?
If you want just tell us what you are paying for the IKO Cambridge 30 AR

The CertainTeed shinlges I get come out of Ohio but they have plants all over the country.
 

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Yeah, I got the updated price list in the mail last Monday.

IKO's I pay $54.00 'Royal Victorian, $72.00 'Cambridge, $60.00 'Gentry Ultra.

I haven't got it from ABC Supply yet tho, but there usually pretty close,
these prices are from Banner Supply.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The cause of price differences.

A lot of contractors are complaining about low ball bidders. Typically they assume the competitor isn’t charging enough for labor and overhead, and that may be true.

But it’s probably also true that various contractors are not even coming up with the same quantity of materials required for the job.

I got the idea for this from a conference I attending last year sponsored by Owens Corning. The instructor put up a sketch of a roof and asked everyone in the room to estimate the quantity of shingles. He didn’t want waste added in, just the basic square footage.

The example he used was even less complicated than the one I am using. He didn’t want the estimate rounded off to bundles or squares; he just wanted the total square feet.

He gave us a few minutes to do the math and then started getting estimates that were all over the place. Some were higher and some were only about half of what it should have been.

After several contractors responded and got it wrong I finally gave him the correct answer.

Now that doesn’t mean that I am going to be exactly right on this estimate because maybe I am adding in to much for waste. But I would rather over estimate that under estimate.

Any way this little experiment may reveal why there is such a wide range in prices from one contractor to another.

It shows that labor cost and mark up are not the only reasons for big differences in price. We are not even close on the amount of material that will be needed to do the job.
 

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All right since you allowed IKO I will play, but we use Shinglevent II.

7 IKO I & W $77 $539
3 Tryflex 123 369
38 Custom drip 11 418
35 IKO Camb. 85 2,975
1 IKO Marathon 79 79
20 Shinglevent II 10 200
1 Button cap pack 25 25
2 !'/4 " Coil Roofing 45 90
1 Bath Vent 20 20
2 Vent hats 10 10


Materials $4,515, I bend all the step/ counter in the trailer.... $4,600 plus tax.

To get the roof area I round lengths up to 3.333 ft, height always one foot per side. Valleys, I add 3.333 to both sides. Typically we will have a couple bundles left over and HO's can save. They love free stuff. My custom drip edge is tight crimp 1" overhand with 1 1/2" drop and he kick out is hemmed back under. I also do not use felt anymore, hardly anyone here does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
All right since you allowed IKO I will play, but we use Shinglevent II.

7 IKO I & W $77 $539
3 Tryflex 123 369
38 Custom drip 11 418
35 IKO Camb. 85 2,975
1 IKO Marathon 79 79
20 Shinglevent II 10 200
1 Button cap pack 25 25
2 !'/4 " Coil Roofing 45 90
1 Bath Vent 20 20
2 Vent hats 10 10


Materials $4,515, I bend all the step/ counter in the trailer.... $4,600 plus tax.

To get the roof area I round lengths up to 3.333 ft, height always one foot per side. Valleys, I add 3.333 to both sides. Typically we will have a couple bundles left over and HO's can save. They love free stuff. My custom drip edge is tight crimp 1" overhand with 1 1/2" drop and he kick out is hemmed back under. I also do not use felt anymore, hardly anyone here does.
Did you add your waste factor into this etimate?
Does that include rooftop delivery?

I don't see starter shinlges for all edges and it looks like you are using a 3 tab for hip & ridge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Comparison Summary

OK, let's look at squares of shinlges and total material cost:

Jack 42 sq. $4642
Ron 35 sq. $4600
Slyfox 35 sq. , revised to 39 sq. Cost?
 

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I did my measurements in four sections.
1> 14 x 34 = 476 / 5 squ.
2> 36 x 44 = 1584 / 16 squ plus 2 squ for reverse gable waste.
3> 22 x 39 = 858 / 9 squ.
4> 3 x 20 = 60 / 1 squ.

340' of starters = 2 squ.
80' of ridge caps = 1 squ.


Every number is rounded up, including starters and ridge caps.

36 squ + 3% waste = 38 squ, rounded that up also.

So assuming the measurements are correct and it is a gable - gable
"no hips", which is the impression I get from the sketch,
I would add another square to allow for the occasional damaged shingles delivered.

39 squares.

I guess my ignorance is showing once again, because I for the life of me can not see how to turn these numbers into a 45 square job with out either purposely wasting over 6 square or hauling 6 square back to the shop after the end of the job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
5 sections

I did my measurements in four sections.
1> 14 x 34 = 476 / 5 squ.
2> 36 x 44 = 1584 / 16 squ plus 2 squ for reverse gable waste.
3> 22 x 39 = 858 / 9 squ.
4> 3 x 20 = 60 / 1 squ.

340' of starters = 2 squ.
80' of ridge caps = 1 squ.


Every number is rounded up, including starters and ridge caps.

36 squ + 3% waste = 38 squ, rounded that up also.

So assuming the measurements are correct and it is a gable - gable
"no hips", which is the impression I get from the sketch,
I would add another square to allow for the occasional damaged shingles delivered.

39 squares.

I guess my ignorance is showing once again, because I for the life of me can not see how to turn these numbers into a 45 square job with out either purposely wasting over 6 square or hauling 6 square back to the shop after the end of the job.

I count 5 sections; there are 2 sections 3' x 20'.
I came up with 41 squares not 45.
I came up with 4 bundles of Hip & Ridge 4 bundles of Starter shinlges.

What would your total material cost be including all accessories and rooftop delivery?
 

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I count 5 sections; there are 2 sections 3' x 20'.
I came up with 41 squares not 45.
I came up with 4 bundles of Hip & Ridge 4 bundles of Starter shinlges.

What would your total material cost be including all accessories and rooftop delivery?
I came up with the same h&r and starters as you, but than rounded up to even squares.
The first 3x20 I included in the main section of the house, called it reverse gable waste.

I'll add up the cost of materials and post in a few.
 

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33 squ CT Landmark - 73.50 $2425.50
1 squ CT Shadow Ridge - 41.00 $41.00
2 squ Starters - 27.25 $54.50
5 rolls #15 felt - 23.75 $118.75
7 rolls Winter Guard - 60.00 $420.00
Bathroom Vent - 16.35 $16.35
4 rolls Ventsure - 39.00 $156.00
340' Drip Edge - 0.39 $132.60
2 bundles Step Flashing - 4.50 $9.00
Nails:
10# 1" for felt - 13.50 $13.50
50# 1 1/4" for shingles - 64.00 $64.00
5# 2" for r-caps/ r-vent - 8.50 $8.50
1-3"/ 1-4" Stack Flashing 4.50 $9.00
Caulking - 2.38 $2.38
Roof Top Delivery $65.00

Total materials $3536.08

I guessed on a couple of things,
we bend our own step flashings,
we buy 1" and 2" nails by the 50#,
so I broke them down with an educated guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I found my mistake

:blink:OK, you guys were right. I had a feeling I would make a mistake since I did this estimate at 1:00 am last night.

I entered 30' for a measurement that should have been 3'.

So I am going to change my previous numbers.

Thanks for your patience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Comparison Summary

OK, let’s add the hip & ridge, starters and shingles together to get a total quantity of squares.

Jack: 37.66 sq. total $4075 = $108.2 per sq.
Slyfox 36 sq. total $3530 = $98.22 per sq.
Ron 36 sq. Total $4600 = 127.77 per sq.
T-Lock 35.66 sq Total $4435 = $124.37 per sq.
 
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