TPO job - please verify production rates - Roofing Talk

Grumpy · 11-06-2008, 09:30 AM

I just put together a bid for a job. Here are the details:

1 story building
165' x 175' outside measurments with a Kynar gravel stop at all 4 sides.
Current roof is a ballasted EPDM which is shrinking badly.
That is over some kind of insulation whcih I did not core but seems too to be too thin since it is over fluted metal deck.

My proposal:
Remove the gravel and dispose.
Cut back the edge of the roof to eliminate the shrinkage effect, but leave the EPDM in place. Maybe also cut back from the curbs and boxes as necessary.
Install new 45 mil TPO Mechanically attached over 1 1/2" ISO insulation. I suppose I could do EPS, but I am bidding ISO for now.
Flashing details include: 4 soil pipes 0-6" boot. 14 4x8 curbs. 12 flu pipes to be field wrapped. 10 4x4 curbs. 4 interior roof drains. 2 2x2 curbs.

When all is said and done I figure I am goign to need to order 300 squares of membrane, plus accessories, 9000 6" screws, 5000 insulation plates, 4000 seam plates and 70 pieces of kynar steel gravel stop. The price seems low at what comes up to be: $113k.

Material is going to cost me about $45k. If I use a per square price for the labor it comes up real high at 800 man hours or 20 working days

That's where I am stuck. The sale price seems ok, maybe a wee bit low. The man hours seem ridiculously high! I'm just guessing since I haven't done a TPO this big.

Comments?

apehangeralfy · 11-09-2008, 09:01 PM

800 hrs sounds about right if not a bit low depending on how fast your crew is and the time to remove the gravel. I'm assuming that there is pitch built in and minimal crickets to be built with taper. All the TPO I have done was either fully adhered or the 2001 system to meet uplift. A lot depends on your details and can add or subtract a ton of time, what edge detail are you using?

Grumpy · 11-10-2008, 07:44 AM

Gravel stop at the edge. First wrap over the field membrane, mount the GS, then strip in the field membrane gluing it to the metal and welding it to the field, then caulk. TPO coated metal is so damned expensive.

The roof has enough slope that no puddles or ponding water was visible.

apehangeralfy · 11-10-2008, 04:29 PM

The ones we do it gets speced to wrap the field over the edge, drip get screwed every 3", clean and prime then pressure sensitive cover strip get rolled on. The cover strip is up there to. Never had good luck with the TPO clad metal and with that many liner ft it would take forever to weld it... make sure your robot is up to snuff, I had one that acted up and my guys didn't do a test pc every day, 500 sq with intermittent welds....

Ed the Roofer · 11-10-2008, 05:30 PM

A style like a Hickman 2-Piece snap lock gravel stop works out pretty nicely too, if they have an approved specification alloed for it.

Ed

SinglePlyGuy · 01-06-2009, 08:57 PM

First off I would order an extra 20 sq. of TPO....think you will be a tad short going with 300 sqs.

Secondly, don't use the glue/caulk detail for your perimeter...especially with TPO. Go with a Metal Era 2 piece edge....it will cost a little bit more but will go on quicker and save you a ton of headaches down the road.

Caulk is a maintenance item.

Peel & Stick is better than Glue/Caulk but if someone wants a heat-welded system they should get one.... no seam tape or pressure sensitive is my motto.

Then again all we do is heat welded systems so i am bias

As far as labor goes I think 600 hours is probably more accurate. Your material cost looks right. In our area (Central NJ ) that job would probably go for around $85k

Just realized this post was from November but I just joined today

Ed the Roofer · 01-06-2009, 10:12 PM

Welcome to the site SinglePlyGuy.

Why don't you make an introduction post and tell a little more about what materials you work with and for how long.

Ed

Grumpy · 01-07-2009, 12:09 PM

Wow $85k I'd lose my shirt, pants and probably my company. But then again I am told we are 1/5th where we should be in terms of production. Someone told me that job would be a 2 day job for 4 men. I laughed, although it comes from a respectable source.

FYI the customer won't even return any of my calls.

SinglePlyGuy · 01-07-2009, 04:59 PM

Well unfortunately thats where prices are at in NJ.

Believe me I am not really thrilled about it either. But the easy projects that you can just blow through usually dont net too well percentage-wise.

A small crew could knock that job out in 5 days max. Alot of contractors these days will take that job and bank $20k for a weeks work.

rwolfe · 06-24-2009, 08:55 PM

Grumpy, did you get this job?

11-06-2008, 09:30 AM	#1
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 731	TPO job - please verify production rates I just put together a bid for a job. Here are the details: 1 story building 165' x 175' outside measurments with a Kynar gravel stop at all 4 sides. Current roof is a ballasted EPDM which is shrinking badly. That is over some kind of insulation whcih I did not core but seems too to be too thin since it is over fluted metal deck. My proposal: Remove the gravel and dispose. Cut back the edge of the roof to eliminate the shrinkage effect, but leave the EPDM in place. Maybe also cut back from the curbs and boxes as necessary. Install new 45 mil TPO Mechanically attached over 1 1/2" ISO insulation. I suppose I could do EPS, but I am bidding ISO for now. Flashing details include: 4 soil pipes 0-6" boot. 14 4x8 curbs. 12 flu pipes to be field wrapped. 10 4x4 curbs. 4 interior roof drains. 2 2x2 curbs. When all is said and done I figure I am goign to need to order 300 squares of membrane, plus accessories, 9000 6" screws, 5000 insulation plates, 4000 seam plates and 70 pieces of kynar steel gravel stop. The price seems low at what comes up to be: $113k. Material is going to cost me about $45k. If I use a per square price for the labor it comes up real high at 800 man hours or 20 working days That's where I am stuck. The sale price seems ok, maybe a wee bit low. The man hours seem ridiculously high! I'm just guessing since I haven't done a TPO this big. Comments? __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

11-10-2008, 07:44 AM	#3
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 731	Gravel stop at the edge. First wrap over the field membrane, mount the GS, then strip in the field membrane gluing it to the metal and welding it to the field, then caulk. TPO coated metal is so damned expensive. The roof has enough slope that no puddles or ponding water was visible. __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

11-10-2008, 05:30 PM	#5
Ed the Roofer Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 584	A style like a Hickman 2-Piece snap lock gravel stop works out pretty nicely too, if they have an approved specification alloed for it. Ed __________________ Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That. http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

01-06-2009, 10:12 PM	#7
Ed the Roofer Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 584	Welcome to the site SinglePlyGuy. Why don't you make an introduction post and tell a little more about what materials you work with and for how long. Ed __________________ Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That. http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

01-07-2009, 12:09 PM	#8
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 731	Wow $85k I'd lose my shirt, pants and probably my company. But then again I am told we are 1/5th where we should be in terms of production. Someone told me that job would be a 2 day job for 4 men. I laughed, although it comes from a respectable source. FYI the customer won't even return any of my calls. __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

11-09-2008, 09:01 PM	#2
apehangeralfy Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 33	800 hrs sounds about right if not a bit low depending on how fast your crew is and the time to remove the gravel. I'm assuming that there is pitch built in and minimal crickets to be built with taper. All the TPO I have done was either fully adhered or the 2001 system to meet uplift. A lot depends on your details and can add or subtract a ton of time, what edge detail are you using?

11-10-2008, 04:29 PM	#4
apehangeralfy Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 33	The ones we do it gets speced to wrap the field over the edge, drip get screwed every 3", clean and prime then pressure sensitive cover strip get rolled on. The cover strip is up there to. Never had good luck with the TPO clad metal and with that many liner ft it would take forever to weld it... make sure your robot is up to snuff, I had one that acted up and my guys didn't do a test pc every day, 500 sq with intermittent welds....

01-06-2009, 08:57 PM	#6
SinglePlyGuy Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 50	First off I would order an extra 20 sq. of TPO....think you will be a tad short going with 300 sqs. Secondly, don't use the glue/caulk detail for your perimeter...especially with TPO. Go with a Metal Era 2 piece edge....it will cost a little bit more but will go on quicker and save you a ton of headaches down the road. Caulk is a maintenance item. Peel & Stick is better than Glue/Caulk but if someone wants a heat-welded system they should get one.... no seam tape or pressure sensitive is my motto. Then again all we do is heat welded systems so i am bias As far as labor goes I think 600 hours is probably more accurate. Your material cost looks right. In our area (Central NJ ) that job would probably go for around $85k Just realized this post was from November but I just joined today

01-07-2009, 04:59 PM	#9
SinglePlyGuy Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 50	Well unfortunately thats where prices are at in NJ. Believe me I am not really thrilled about it either. But the easy projects that you can just blow through usually dont net too well percentage-wise. A small crew could knock that job out in 5 days max. Alot of contractors these days will take that job and bank $20k for a weeks work.

06-24-2009, 08:55 PM	#10
rwolfe Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 59	Grumpy, did you get this job?

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