School Gymnasium Roof - Page 6 - Roofing Talk

rwolfe · 07-01-2009, 06:32 PM

BTW, Pretty impressed Ed.

Grump, it was a pdf. converted from power point. Have a nice holiday weekend gents

BornaRoofer · 07-02-2009, 09:37 AM

Wow Epdm is way more popular than any asphalt systems and Pvc at the bottom. Unless now im color blind to.
I think I should get an apology. All the liar/consultant insults and my company should fire me and it turns out what? I was right?
At least you had the balls to put it up like you said you would.

Grumpy · 07-02-2009, 09:50 AM

I could be reading it wrong and maybe I am because it's kinda small. It looks to me like BUR is losing market share, epdm &modified are pretty much holding and TPO is taking off.

This sounds about accurate with all the studies I have ever read or heard in conversation. The one thing you have to understand is the source of the study. Were manufacturers surveyed, roofers, etc... And of coarse things vary by region based on codes and climatic conditions.

rwolfe · 07-02-2009, 09:54 PM

I love it when you pipe up Consultant. But now I'm starting to think someones either messing with me, or your just not really getting it. Your funny though

O.K. You got me. The stat's I looked at earlier this year included shingles in the asphalt market I'm sure. Because the numbers I saw were almost identical to the chart.

But way to try to save face. Cause the tone of my earlier remarks were absolutely accurate. Because shingles are number 1. Oh. and tpo is#2. But this report is addressing the total Commercial and industrial markets. And guess what,,,,,,,, TPO,,,,,,,,,.where's it at consultant? I know you can see it.

Homework for you roof consultant. Print this entire blog and review it very carefully. Pick out one comment you may have been right about. In fact, explain to me how you're not at least slightly embarrassed, or atleast admit that your not even in the roofing industry. I'll take either one.

One statement you've said that was accurate. That's all. Just One.

Let me see here

LEED points? no
EPDM outselling TPO? no
TPO distant second? no
I said it's TPO was the best? no
I have an easy bake oven? Maybe, but that doesn't count.

I like your fight though. And although I slightly regret coming out and calling you a liar, I still don't believe your a Man. Rep. If you are, that's kinda funny. No offense.

Grump, this is supposed to be market analysis by an industry recognized independant research firm. This report apparently was part of a larger Power Point Presentation. The person who sent this to me indicated it's completely valid. I've also been asked to not indicate who it came from. And I must comply with that request. This is not arma, or nrca or spri. I can tell you that. I've seen theirs too and it looks nothing like this.

Back to Roof Consultant (or Ed the roofer) (i think ed's messing with me) (If you are ed, that's funny)(Kidding ed, I know this guys serious) Check out this article from reuters from mid year 08

http://www.reuters.com/article/press...008+MW20080805

In there it states:
"In 2007, bituminous roofing was the most widely used roofing material in
the global market. This status stems from the popularity of bituminous
shingles in the US and Canada, and the widespread use of low-slope
bituminous roofing materials in China and Western Europe. Going forward,
the fastest growing markets for bituminous roofing are expected to be the
nonresidential construction markets of Asia and Eastern Europe.

Plastic, elastomeric roofing to be fastest growing overall

Plastic and elastomeric roofing materials are projected to post the
fastest gains through 2012, each from a relatively small base. Plastic
roofing (e.g., thermoplastic polyolefin, PVC, spray polyurethane foam)
will see its greatest gains the US market, where it is expected to
supplant built-up roofing. Demand for elastomeric roofing (e.g., ethylene
propylene diene monomer and chlorosulfonated polyethylene) will be driven
by gains in the Chinese and other Asian markets."

Slightly more impressive than the combined contractor purchases of a couple million dollars nrca survey thing from 2006 eh (remember, the you sent the link for and got snippy)? You silly goose.

I recommend you do your roof consulting on the DIY site. It'll be easier there for you.

rwolfe · 07-02-2009, 10:07 PM

Florida Market. Because I know you guys probably know I'm from Florida. Hey, wait. Look.

Roof consultant! Do you see what I see?

TPO not doing so well in Florida! lol

Ed the Roofer · 07-03-2009, 12:01 AM

I only post under one User Name or my real name on some forums. Not me.

Ed

Ed the Roofer · 07-03-2009, 12:01 AM

Wow, I wasted my 500th post on that?

Ed

BornaRoofer · 07-03-2009, 12:11 PM

- EPDM isn't even on the radar for most purchased roofing products. Asphalt systems are #1 and TPO is #2

This is your quote that started this debate about the most popular com/ind roofing material. I guess when we are talking commercial roofing products I didn't realize you would interject shingles into the mix.
Either way you were wrong. Epdm has been king in commercial/ind roofing for years until recently when tpo gained market share and your beloved pvc is at the bottom of the barrel where I think it should be.
And once again your wrong on all your points:

Leed- Yes roofing is one point on their scale like I said and you cant dispute it. Whats your point?

I didn't say epdm "is" outselling tpo. I said it blows asphalt out of the water and has been the most sold product for years. But like I said who was to know you would be talking about shingles in a com/ind discussion.

I don't care what you said was the best the point is you said epdm sucks and your wrong. If it sucked so bad why would it be so popular with roofers and owners all over the country for years.

And I don't care about Florida's market. I have been trying to get you to understand that im talking about the nation not Florida.

You keep coming back to shingles to prove some point and its silly.Of course shingles bump asphalt #s up. Were not talking shingles or residential in this conversation.

You can diss me all you want it doesn't bother me. I am a respected professional in the industry and could bury you in any real roofing discussion/debate. As I have here. And could probably still out roof you seven days to Sunday.Your circle talking bs isn't fooling anyone but yourself.
Why don't you go back and read this whole blog as you say and see that no one here has agreed with you once in fact the opposite is true it started out with you getting a new hole ripped by the mod and not even realizing it to you flip flopping about the quality of epdm roofing. Same now as then you have your head in the sand bro.

rwolfe · 07-04-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BornaRoofer

- EPDM isn't even on the radar for most purchased roofing products. Asphalt systems are #1 and TPO is #2

This is your quote that started this debate about the most popular com/ind roofing material. I guess when we are talking commercial roofing products I didn't realize you would interject shingles into the mix.
Either way you were wrong. Epdm has been king in commercial/ind roofing for years until recently when tpo gained market share and your beloved pvc is at the bottom of the barrel where I think it should be.
And once again your wrong on all your points: Your right, the reports I looked at included shingles. Then I put some more stats in front of you to back my point. You think pvc should be at the bottom of the list? Why? nevermind it really doesn't matter.

Leed- Yes roofing is one point on their scale like I said and you cant dispute it. Whats your point? No you're right, white roofing means absolutely nothing at at all.

I didn't say epdm "is" outselling tpo. I said it blows asphalt out of the water and has been the most sold product for years. But like I said who was to know you would be talking about shingles in a com/ind discussion. Actually what your said was: 6-02-2009"Epdm has the highest market share of all flat roofing products in the nation and has for many years with tpo a distant second. Asphalt is at the bottom buddy"

I don't care what you said was the best the point is you said epdm sucks and your wrong. If it sucked so bad why would it be so popular with roofers and owners all over the country for years. Because it's cheap.

And I don't care about Florida's market. I have been trying to get you to understand that im talking about the nation not Florida. Luckily I put national stats and international stats within my last post. Have another look if you're confused.

You keep coming back to shingles to prove some point and its silly.Of course shingles bump asphalt #s up. Were not talking shingles or residential in this conversation. You're right about this.

You can diss me all you want it doesn't bother me. I see that I am a respected professional in the industry and could bury you in any real roofing discussion/debate. First of all I doubt that and secondly, you may want to start now with the winning discussion or debate thing As I have here. And could probably still out roof you seven days to Sunday.Your circle talking bs isn't fooling anyone but yourself. I'm certain this isn't true. But anything that'll keep you from kicking the dog, I'll go along with.
Why don't you go back and read this whole blog as you say and see that no one here has agreed with you once in fact the opposite is true it started out with you getting a new hole ripped by the mod and not even realizing it to you flip flopping about the quality of epdm roofing nobody flip flopped, EPDM still sucks. Same now as then you have your head in the sand bro. Head in the sand? then you'd be able to spew unabated? I don't think so, and Don't call me bro

DIY, give it a try. They'll thank you for contributing to their forum. With all of you roofing knowledge. .

rwolfe · 07-04-2009, 04:25 PM

Ed that was post 503. And I was kidding any ways.

Roof consultant, this will be my last wasted 5 minutes with you.

First of all, i never flip flopped. I merely agreed with the statement that SinglePlyGuy made

"Now do not get me wrong- the EPDM sheet in itself is pretty good...IF you didnt have to seam it. The seams have always been and will always be maintenance items. We have talked about this somewhere before....
Market share is only an indicator of sales- not of quality.
EPDM has always been popular because 1. Price 2. Ease of installation.
The investment is minimal (no fancy tools, equipment) and its almost idiot proof ( i did say ALMOST)
TPO is the new commodity in town and is white - which is an important quality whether you want to believe it or not. And its cheap...period.
In the single ply world I will still stand by PVC....it is the KING.

And I agreed. Not flopped. Read it again if you need to consultant. There was some discussion you probably won't find very interesting about seam assemblies in there.

I agree that I may have unintentionally thrown shingles into the mix. And I made sure my later sentiments indicated that. And I'm fairly certain that I haven't kept pushing that point like you seem to be harping on. Nice reach though.

Thinking that maybe I was misunderstanding what was being talked about, I dropped back and read the thread again. Here's What I came up with.

5-27-09 You said "Ive said it many times before and im sure ill have to say it many times in the future that id put a properly installed epdm agianst any material out there barring coal tar
I mean come on rwolfe you obviosly dont even realize when your being ripped a new a hole much less what a good roof is.
So in case you were'nt sure I dont agree with you"

This by the way is what officially started the debate. Unfortunately the name calling started here as well.

Then on 6-01-2009 You said "You know I typed a whole rant for you about how every point you make is retarded and tried to explain and teach you some things about roofing in the rest of the world besides your little easybake oven corner but then I realized you just wont understand"
This is when you started throwing out really bad stats, like you were talking to your kids. Also note that you began to talk about the rest of the world besides my easybake oven, which I believe you where talking about Florida. This is why I put the article from Reuters in my earlier post. Did you read it?
Then on 6-02-2009 you said "Epdm has the highest market share of all flat roofing products in the nation and has for many years with tpo a distant second. Asphalt is at the bottom buddy"
And you even tried to back that statement up with this meager NRCA survey that even Mark Gaulin would admit holds not water.
6-4-2009 www.professionalroofing.net/article.aspx?id=623
This is when I started to think someone was trying to get me riled up. I then began to do my research which took up way too much of my time. I even had to pull a favor to get some of the information. Which is o.k. because I'm going to use some of it in my Company's Propaganda.

I've thrown national stats and international stats your way. All you have to say is what? I'm not even sure. Something about talking in circles. What does that mean? I have said nothing that is not true, misleading, or otherwise. Why are you still defending yourself? Why?

Your respected in the industry for what? What industry? You can win any debate against me? I wasn't treating this as a winning or losing situation. But you probably should have picked another topic to "win". Because this is not the one. Maybe you can start a different one about why PVC sucks and why it's the least purchased. I dare you.

And if you think you can "out roof" me, I'm thinking you'd be sorely mistaken. I will assure you at that. I've come across many guys like yourself who talk like they know the deal, but can't get back up the ladder after lunch because of the heat. Your like the guy who hits the crapper the minute lunch is over. The guy who's legs move real fast, but then you realize he's not going anywhere.

This is my last post that will be directed to you roof consultant. I won't be addressing your nonsense moving forward. Discussing roofing topics with you is like trying to fasten R-19 iso with a 2" screw. I just aint catchin'.

07-02-2009, 09:50 AM	#53
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 925	I could be reading it wrong and maybe I am because it's kinda small. It looks to me like BUR is losing market share, epdm &modified are pretty much holding and TPO is taking off. This sounds about accurate with all the studies I have ever read or heard in conversation. The one thing you have to understand is the source of the study. Were manufacturers surveyed, roofers, etc... And of coarse things vary by region based on codes and climatic conditions. __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

07-03-2009, 12:01 AM	#56
Ed the Roofer Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 622	I only post under one User Name or my real name on some forums. Not me. Ed __________________ Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That. http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

07-03-2009, 12:01 AM	#57
Ed the Roofer Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 622	Wow, I wasted my 500th post on that? Ed __________________ Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That. http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

07-03-2009, 12:11 PM	#58
BornaRoofer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 26	- EPDM isn't even on the radar for most purchased roofing products. Asphalt systems are #1 and TPO is #2 This is your quote that started this debate about the most popular com/ind roofing material. I guess when we are talking commercial roofing products I didn't realize you would interject shingles into the mix. Either way you were wrong. Epdm has been king in commercial/ind roofing for years until recently when tpo gained market share and your beloved pvc is at the bottom of the barrel where I think it should be. And once again your wrong on all your points: Leed- Yes roofing is one point on their scale like I said and you cant dispute it. Whats your point? I didn't say epdm "is" outselling tpo. I said it blows asphalt out of the water and has been the most sold product for years. But like I said who was to know you would be talking about shingles in a com/ind discussion. I don't care what you said was the best the point is you said epdm sucks and your wrong. If it sucked so bad why would it be so popular with roofers and owners all over the country for years. And I don't care about Florida's market. I have been trying to get you to understand that im talking about the nation not Florida. You keep coming back to shingles to prove some point and its silly.Of course shingles bump asphalt #s up. Were not talking shingles or residential in this conversation. You can diss me all you want it doesn't bother me. I am a respected professional in the industry and could bury you in any real roofing discussion/debate. As I have here. And could probably still out roof you seven days to Sunday.Your circle talking bs isn't fooling anyone but yourself. Why don't you go back and read this whole blog as you say and see that no one here has agreed with you once in fact the opposite is true it started out with you getting a new hole ripped by the mod and not even realizing it to you flip flopping about the quality of epdm roofing. Same now as then you have your head in the sand bro. Last edited by BornaRoofer; 07-03-2009 at 12:23 PM.

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07-01-2009, 06:32 PM	#51
rwolfe Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 60	BTW, Pretty impressed Ed. Grump, it was a pdf. converted from power point. Have a nice holiday weekend gents

07-02-2009, 09:37 AM	#52
BornaRoofer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 26	Wow Epdm is way more popular than any asphalt systems and Pvc at the bottom. Unless now im color blind to. I think I should get an apology. All the liar/consultant insults and my company should fire me and it turns out what? I was right? At least you had the balls to put it up like you said you would.

07-04-2009, 04:25 PM	#60
rwolfe Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 60	Ed that was post 503. And I was kidding any ways. Roof consultant, this will be my last wasted 5 minutes with you. First of all, i never flip flopped. I merely agreed with the statement that SinglePlyGuy made "Now do not get me wrong- the EPDM sheet in itself is pretty good...IF you didnt have to seam it. The seams have always been and will always be maintenance items. We have talked about this somewhere before.... Market share is only an indicator of sales- not of quality. EPDM has always been popular because 1. Price 2. Ease of installation. The investment is minimal (no fancy tools, equipment) and its almost idiot proof ( i did say ALMOST) TPO is the new commodity in town and is white - which is an important quality whether you want to believe it or not. And its cheap...period. In the single ply world I will still stand by PVC....it is the KING. And I agreed. Not flopped. Read it again if you need to consultant. There was some discussion you probably won't find very interesting about seam assemblies in there. I agree that I may have unintentionally thrown shingles into the mix. And I made sure my later sentiments indicated that. And I'm fairly certain that I haven't kept pushing that point like you seem to be harping on. Nice reach though. Thinking that maybe I was misunderstanding what was being talked about, I dropped back and read the thread again. Here's What I came up with. 5-27-09 You said "Ive said it many times before and im sure ill have to say it many times in the future that id put a properly installed epdm agianst any material out there barring coal tar I mean come on rwolfe you obviosly dont even realize when your being ripped a new a hole much less what a good roof is. So in case you were'nt sure I dont agree with you" This by the way is what officially started the debate. Unfortunately the name calling started here as well. Then on 6-01-2009 You said "You know I typed a whole rant for you about how every point you make is retarded and tried to explain and teach you some things about roofing in the rest of the world besides your little easybake oven corner but then I realized you just wont understand" This is when you started throwing out really bad stats, like you were talking to your kids. Also note that you began to talk about the rest of the world besides my easybake oven, which I believe you where talking about Florida. This is why I put the article from Reuters in my earlier post. Did you read it? Then on 6-02-2009 you said "Epdm has the highest market share of all flat roofing products in the nation and has for many years with tpo a distant second. Asphalt is at the bottom buddy" And you even tried to back that statement up with this meager NRCA survey that even Mark Gaulin would admit holds not water. 6-4-2009 www.professionalroofing.net/article.aspx?id=623 This is when I started to think someone was trying to get me riled up. I then began to do my research which took up way too much of my time. I even had to pull a favor to get some of the information. Which is o.k. because I'm going to use some of it in my Company's Propaganda. I've thrown national stats and international stats your way. All you have to say is what? I'm not even sure. Something about talking in circles. What does that mean? I have said nothing that is not true, misleading, or otherwise. Why are you still defending yourself? Why? Your respected in the industry for what? What industry? You can win any debate against me? I wasn't treating this as a winning or losing situation. But you probably should have picked another topic to "win". Because this is not the one. Maybe you can start a different one about why PVC sucks and why it's the least purchased. I dare you. And if you think you can "out roof" me, I'm thinking you'd be sorely mistaken. I will assure you at that. I've come across many guys like yourself who talk like they know the deal, but can't get back up the ladder after lunch because of the heat. Your like the guy who hits the crapper the minute lunch is over. The guy who's legs move real fast, but then you realize he's not going anywhere. This is my last post that will be directed to you roof consultant. I won't be addressing your nonsense moving forward. Discussing roofing topics with you is like trying to fasten R-19 iso with a 2" screw. I just aint catchin'.

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