School Gymnasium Roof

BornaRoofer

Where do you get your info the fibertight website? Epdm has the highest market share of all flat roofing products in the nation and has for many years with tpo a distant second. Asphalt is at the bottom buddy. Thats right the toilet, it cant even come close to epdm sales. Unless of course your including shingles and with you who knows.
Like I said before your stuck in a Florida state of mind. Its a big world and most of it is covered with premium epdm roofing that's working just fine.
Every system has its place and maybe in your hot box spray polyurethane or tpo is the best and not epdm but thats doesnt negate the facts. Your personal opinions dont mean anything and thats all your spewing.
And if you read my first post you would know Im not a consultant Im a journyman roofer first then consultant and now for ten years a manufactures rep. And by the way we manufacture all roofing systems not just epdm or pvc since it appears I need to repeat myself. Plenty of real world all over the world experince.
And leed is a joke with or without an S on it. It a bullshit money making scam run by private corporation not the goverment. A roof only gets you one leed point vs a bike rack or a electrical socket wich also gets you one point. Lets see a million $ roof or $50 bike rack?
That doesnt mean green roofing is bad its great but leed is bs.
Once agian ill repeat myself. Do some reading in some real roofing journals or maybe ask someone that knows a little bit about roofing in the rest of the country before you make statments that are completely off base.
You look dumber by the post.

OUTLAW

my roof is better than your roof

__________________
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OUTLAW

Fighting on the internet is like racing in the special olympics.

Even if you win.........your still a retard

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rwolfe

I've already wasted too much time with you. But you said your a Manufacturer's Rep. Your a liar. Most manufacturer's train there people. You've clearly recieved no training.

Breakdown of the market by material type (percentage):
BUR 28.2
APP Modified 15.1
SBS Modified 14.2
EPDM 8.6
PVC 5.9
TPO 9.1
Fiberglass shingles 2.8
Metal/architectural 4.1
Liquid applied 3.1
Polyurethane Foam 2.4
Metal/structural 2.7
Self-adhered mod 1.9
Other 0.9
CSPE 0.8
Concrete tile 0.2
The article also gives dollar amounts.
(Source: Western Roofing, Insulation, and Siding.)

Admittedly this report is from 2004. But I can't imagine EPDM gained in popularity in the last 4 1/2 years anywhere in the United States other than your head. Smart money does not buy epdm.

Calling people stupid was the high point of your nonsensicle post. You really should perform some due dilligane before showing your ass roof constultant. I am slightly embarrassed for you. Especially considering that you compared the LEED program to a bike rack. Wow. That was really weak. I'm not going to educate you here but if 20% of the materials are manufacturered within 500 miles of a project, the project automatically qualifies for 2 points. That is really embarrasing.

Look, I know you won't take my advice, but if you don't like to read, take a class. This industry is moving very quickly and your wasting time stepping on your dick. People like yourself give a bad name to an industry that I've made my career.
I couldn't imagine your employer lets you talk to buyers.

I'm done with you.

I was thinking while typing that I would be interested to know who you work for. But then it occurred to me, It doesn't really matter.

Outlaw, nice retard joke. That made more sense than the roof consultants rant.

Though I'd rather be the winning retard than the retard that didn't even cross the line.

Thanx for asking

rw

BornaRoofer

Here check it out for your self or is Nrca not good enough or are you not a member?

For low-slope roofing work, the survey results show EPDM as the market leader for new construction and reroofing, garnering about a 32 percent share of the ...
www.professionalroofing.net/article.aspx?id=623 - 39k

Your out dated breakdown from the "western states" isn't representative of the whole nation or world which is my point.
Call any major manufacture of commercial roofing and ask anyone there what membrane/system sells the most square feet per year. And not just in the south or west. The answer will be epdm every time with tpo #2.
For the majority of the country Epdm rules and for good reason. It works and has for over 40 years now.

And so what about about materials from within 500 miles? Thats for drywall to toilets and everything else in the building envelope. I thought we were talking about roofing? My point stands.

Unfortunatly I have spent the last 10 years dealing with self proclaimed "professional roofers" just like you. They know everything there is to know about roofing and are never wrong but couldnt pass a warranty inspection if there life depended on it.

Ed the Roofer

Hey guys. Keep it a bit more civil and try to eliminate the name calling, otherwise this wonderful debate will have to be closed down.

Back up any comments with reliable sources and cite their link for validation.

Thanks.

Ed

__________________
Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That.
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

rwolfe

Sorry ed. You're right. I shouldn't have called this guy a liar even if I think he is.

Bora, you're starting to wear on me. I'm starting to not care. I'll try one last time.

You directed me to an article from the NRCA who's title is
NRCA's latest market survey shows 2004 was a solid year for roofing contractors

2004? You called mine out dated. Western put that together using Manufacturing data from the relevant year. The manufacturer's Represented 11 billion dollars in sales. Your article states:

NRCA then mailed the survey questionnaire to the same group of contractors and received a total of 199 responses for a response rate of 10 percent. However, NRCA's market survey is not a statistically valid analysis of the roofing market; it is intended only to provide feedback from contractors about annual trends in sales volume, squares and the types of roof systems installed.

Apparently you did not see that part.

Because you are starting to get under my skin and I really believe you you feel strongly about what you think are the facts, here some reading. This references a report performed by SPRI:


http://books.google.com/books?id=TDM...g+market+share

Here's SPRI's link in case you don't know who they are. www.spri.org

There's more but I'm getting bored with you. I may post more on monday. I'm waiting for a report from GAF which indicates 2008 market share. I don't personally own the report because it is an industry analysis conducted by independant firm and it costs around $3,500. I'll have a copy of it though. Hopefully this arguement can begin to end. By the way, GAF is the worlds larges roofing Manfuacturer.

One more piece consultant. Internationally EPDM isn't on the radar. And because i've attempted this post three times now, i'm not going to give the link cause i can't immediatley find it. If you're silly enough to continue to argue your point, i'll find it for you.

LEED is BS huh? Kinda weird hearing that from a roof consultant. I don't think you get it. Here a link to educate you on building envelops. Roofing is only one side of LEED program. Of course you know that already.

http://www.fpl.com/business/savings/...envelope.shtml

I'm tired. Going to take a shower.

Ed the Roofer

rwolfe,

I'm glad to see that you can roll with the first punch that I threw on this board. That shows me something about your character, by not continuing with a sniping back circus of volley shots.

So, which information is to be believed?

199 responses does not seem to be a proper sampling for an accurate figure.

I had assumed all along, especially with the size of some large facilities using epdm rubber membrane roofs and with the larger contractors all pretty much being one sided with epdm, or so I thought, that epdm was way out in front of the other single ply membranes.

So, what is the correct percentages?

Although I am not an advocate of epdm, I do believe that a fully adhered epdm is one of the better products available for duration and ease of future repairs.

Ed

__________________
Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That.
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

rwolfe

Although I would never make an arguement for mechanically attached or ballasted assemblies, I will not disagree that fully adhered scrim reinforced EPDM can be a viable assembly. In fact, if you ammoratized the cost of the average FA epdm assembly, it MAY begin to make more economic sense than most other assemblies. Having said that, it is absolutely imperative that preventative maintenance is performed only by a quality contractor that knows the Intracacies and probable failure points of the assembly. It seems this statement would be the case with any roof system that is installed. But with EPDM and the other single ply's, I believe it's the quality contractor piece is more critical.

But TPO has the same or less installed cost as EPDM. An although EPDM has recently been re-invented to include UV blockers, it still absorbs a tremendous amount of heat. White thermoplastic does not. The rigidity of the TPO sheet combined with the reflective properties and the strong molecularly welded seams help me believe that this product is suberior over rubber. The formulation of TPO has gone through it's ups and downs over the last 20 years, but whose hasn't. (with the exception of coal tar) I won't expound on the seam issues of EPDM over the years.

I don't want to come across as someone who absolutely believes rubber is garbage. In fact, I'm sure there is no other system that withstands the effects of hail better than this product. And considering that some of the EPDM sheets have factory installed butyl at the seams, one could make an arguement that some of the workmanship prone errors are being corrected by the Manufacturer's. But there are other assemblies out there that make more sense for most cases. Rubber has been the commercial industry leader for a lot of years. But it is simply because of it's installed cost. That's it. Everyone would probably much rather have standing seam or tile on their roof at home. But at the end of the day, they buy shingles. TPO is here to take that cost effective category under control and add a little flare in the process. I'm not willing to look past that fact. I'm also not willing to stand by and be insulted while having opinions being passed as scientific evidence. This is simply unacceptable.

Regarding percentages, I will post the numbers when I recieve them. I spoke with a suit at GAF. He indicated that he has a commercial market analysis for 2008 conducted jointly by ARMA and SPRI that shows the national leader is Thermoplastic Polyolefin. Apparently TPO has gained 15 percent per year more market share per year for the last 6 years. He said he would convert it from read-only to pdf and send to me. This, I have to think, will be more reliable than a 200 company survey.

Last night I found a report that indicated the International Market Share is still held by SBS and APP by a long shot. When I find it again I will link it. What I thought was most interesting is EPDM was at the bottom.

SinglePlyGuy

Wow I shoulda kept up with this thread.

My opinion on EPDM (based on over 20 years exp in commercial roofing) is that its lifecycle cost exceeds pretty much any other product.

Now do not get me wrong- the EPDM sheet in itself is pretty good...IF you didnt have to seam it. The seams have always been and will always be maintenance items. We have talked about this somewhere before....

Market share is only an indicator of sales- not of quality.

EPDM has always been popular because 1. Price 2. Ease of installation.

The investment is minimal (no fancy tools, equipment) and its almost idiot proof ( i did say ALMOST)

TPO is the new commodity in town and is white - which is an important quality whether you want to believe it or not. And its cheap...period.

In the single ply world I will still stand by PVC....it is the KING.