Longevity of TPO

 
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Old 08-20-2011, 04:03 PM   #21
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Re: Longevity of TPO


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How good is the Versico TPO and others???
Depends on the thickness and the contractor who puts it on ?.
Typically the membrane loses about 1-2 mils per year from the top
surface due to erosion/wear and tear.

Any ponding or bird baths causes it to dis-color. Should be inspected and cleaned every year. Most common installation is 60 mil thickness. We don't recommend 45 mil, we leave that to the cheap O's.
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Old 08-27-2011, 07:13 AM   #22
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Whats wrong with Duro-Last guys ? They have treated us pretty good even given us good leads. BTW they are now coming out with 10' roll goods. We might have to install a GAF-TPO coming up because there the only one who make a blue membrane. I personally think all TPOs will not last as long as a PVC or EPDM roof.

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Old 08-27-2011, 07:43 AM   #23
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Jim, all the durolast roofs I have seen were the complete worst pieces of crap you could imagine. I've never seen a durlast roof and said to myself "this thing looks pretty good". Now that's not durolast's fault, but they also shouldn't sign up every contractor with a ladder and call them certified. The mess these hack contractors leave behind gives the manufacturer a bad name. That's not something I want to be associated with, exactly why I stopped promoting modified as well. It's not always about the product, sometimes it's about the perception in the market place.

One roof ALL the seams were installed backwards. The customer complained to Durolast the rep said to the customer "The roof is seamless." What? I could have put a team of apprentices on this roof and it'd have looked better.

I've heard horror stories, and ead countless posts on the internet about building owners where durolast wouldn't honor the warranty. The first time I read it I dismissed and said "there are two sides to every argument", the 2nd time I said "well they have huge volume and it's hard to please everyone." but after reading the complaints for years, it starts to stick in the back of your brains.


As for the marketing support and leads, Durolast has really got that locked hands down and I have considered joining up JUST for that. If they scratch my back I'll scratch theirs. I think the other manufacturers should really take note and follow suite. When I asked Genflex about marketing support, they said "We'll give you free brochures and list you on our website." I've gotten one lead from the genflex website and free brochures, gee thanks.


But the whole prefab roof concept is lost on me. Just give me the rolls and I'll fab it myself. You say now they are coming out with 10' rolls? Well that's a good thing and *maybe* worth another look.


That's just my opinion.
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:55 AM   #24
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Re: Longevity of TPO


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Originally Posted by RooferJim View Post
Whats wrong with Duro-Last guys ? They have treated us pretty good even given us good leads. BTW they are now coming out with 10' roll goods. We might have to install a GAF-TPO coming up because there the only one who make a blue membrane. I personally think all TPOs will not last as long as a PVC or EPDM roof.
I have personally used Durolast, and agree that PVC's seem to have more longevity than TPO's. I actually haven't seen too many bad applications of Durolast since they inspect every roof if it gets a warranty. The bad part is if the order is missing any components, you can not drive to Durolast and pick up. They don't have any distributors.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:25 PM   #25
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Ive never actually seen a duro last roof that looked good. The membrane is too thin, very shotty installs. Now im sure there are good D/l installers but they dont seem to be in our area.

Also most manufactures will make TPO in any color you want. As long as you buy enough of it from them. Im not sure what the min is. We did a gray one, it was a stock color though. Was kind of nice for the guys not to be blinded the whole day.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:46 PM   #26
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Re: Longevity of TPO


If you dont mind PMing me the names of the failing TPO's. Thanks!!
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:57 AM   #27
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Re: Longevity of TPO


The one I know of switched manufactures of their sheet.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:52 PM   #28
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Wow, What a great thread! I agree with a lot of you and have read thoughts I have thought all along and been afraid to say.
Consulting I have seen a lot of TPO failures. I have also seen thousands of Squares installed as an Observer on large box stores, with that 10 year mark rapidly approaching.
Why is TPO so dimensionally unstable? I saw a roof go on a box store, in the middle of the winter -20 degrees and SNOWING (Montana), had the manufacturer tell me "Their trying to Broom the Snow off" and then they offer a 10 year warranty with wrinkles in the membrane 3-4-inches tall. Why is that acceptable. I wouldnít accept it. My client didnít pay for a new roof with wet insulation and a wrinkled membrane. I basically said, "if you show me some of your advertising literature with a roof membrane that is wrinkled like that, I will accept the roof on behalf of my client" They said "give it a year, itíll flatten out. Really? If those wrinkle flatten out you have a serious dimensional stability issue with your product. They did end up ďmaking it rightĒ but only after I instructed a 500 person firm not to accept membranes by this manufacturer.

When I worked for an architecture firm, it was company policy not to specify TPO. Iím not saying they didnít go on when it was client driven, But I spent hours educating our clients of the History (as brief as it is) of TPO. I helped them understand life cycle costing and how the membrane isnít where most of the cost of a roof installation comes from.

As far as PVC's, I have the ones I like and they have some history. Formulations are consistent. How popular are KEE sheets in your guys parts of the country??? You got to admit, if puncture resistance is your thing, KEE has it down. At least the main manufacturer does. Iíve also heard contractors like the way it welds.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:35 AM   #29
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Re: Longevity of TPO


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Wow, What a great thread! I agree with a lot of you and have read thoughts I have thought all along and been afraid to say.
Consulting I have seen a lot of TPO failures. I have also seen thousands of Squares installed as an Observer on large box stores, with that 10 year mark rapidly approaching.
Why is TPO so dimensionally unstable? I saw a roof go on a box store, in the middle of the winter -20 degrees and SNOWING (Montana), had the manufacturer tell me "Their trying to Broom the Snow off" and then they offer a 10 year warranty with wrinkles in the membrane 3-4-inches tall. Why is that acceptable. I wouldn’t accept it. My client didn’t pay for a new roof with wet insulation and a wrinkled membrane. I basically said, "if you show me some of your advertising literature with a roof membrane that is wrinkled like that, I will accept the roof on behalf of my client" They said "give it a year, it’ll flatten out. Really? If those wrinkle flatten out you have a serious dimensional stability issue with your product. They did end up “making it right” but only after I instructed a 500 person firm not to accept membranes by this manufacturer.

When I worked for an architecture firm, it was company policy not to specify TPO. I’m not saying they didn’t go on when it was client driven, But I spent hours educating our clients of the History (as brief as it is) of TPO. I helped them understand life cycle costing and how the membrane isn’t where most of the cost of a roof installation comes from.

As far as PVC's, I have the ones I like and they have some history. Formulations are consistent. How popular are KEE sheets in your guys parts of the country??? You got to admit, if puncture resistance is your thing, KEE has it down. At least the main manufacturer does. I’ve also heard contractors like the way it welds.
TPO like any other single ply there are good and bad sheets, also manufactures. I really think TPO is a good mid point between EPDM and PVC. Although I really do like EPDM, TPO offers the added security of heat welded seams.

As far as 3-4 in high wrinkles, those will never come out of any sheet. EPDM is probably the most forgiving in that aspect you can get minor wrinkles and work them out and of course the a day/night cycle will help. TPO and PVC's not so much, the fabric between the layers will not allow the sheet to do this. To be honest when I was running crews and working with the products you really had to try and get a wrinkle with TPO or PVC. The fabric makes the sheet stiff and it rolls out nicely.


We have limited experience with PVC. It is a very good product, but I can not say I have any experience with KEE sheets.

Last edited by 1985gt; 12-22-2011 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:30 PM   #30
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Re: Longevity of TPO


What manufacturer are you talking as far as TPO's you are familiar with?

I worked on the east coast in my early 20s, I was the "roof observer" for a large company that was opening one of these Box stores every 2 weeks at the time. The membrane of choice was TPO, 45 mil, with a 10 NDL year warranty. The membrane was installed and ďmanufacturedĒ by North American roofing, some kind of conglomerate. They were a decent outfit, had knowledgeable supers with migrant worker crews. They roofed a whole store in 5 days. It was very impressive. The real manufacturer was Carlisle. I like Carlisleís TPO as far as TPOs go, I have a lot of experience with it. I know plenty of guys who work there as well as the main TPO guy whoís constantly trying to sell me on it cause even though he knows I have recommended their product, I am still hesitant to specify it. I am a little biased on it, but what else can I go on but personal experience. I also hate to say this, but if it fails, Carlisle will stand behind it. Period. Iíve seen it, Iíve seen them pay out when they really had no obligation to.

One thing you mentioned is that you like it more than EPDM because of the welded seams. Do you have a specific issue with EPDM tapped seams? I donít like them if there submerged so I would tend to agree with you that Heat welded is better. But I personally would rather see ĹĒ of tape along a seam than a heat welded seam with some bleed out here and there. TPO does not seem to weld consistently. I havenít welded a lot of it but it seems like most contractors say the same thing. The really good contractors can adapt. But not the bad contractors. And thatís who TPO seems to be marketed to (one reason we didnít specify them). I have worked with other manufacturers as well but have had mostly bad experiences.
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