Longevity of TPO

 
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:33 PM   #1
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Longevity of TPO


How good is the Versico TPO and others???

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:23 PM   #2
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Depends, how good was it installed. GAF's new extreme TPO you can get a 35 year warranty. As with anything its the install that counts.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:32 AM   #3
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Versico/Carlisle is a good product. As for TPO we prefer the Versico over the Genflex/Firestone. However prefer the Genflex EPDM over the Versico. Both are fine products and have system ratings up to 20 years. I even think Versico has a 30 year system rating.


Personally, the way I look at it. If you want a flat roof to last 20 years or longer, consider PVC. if you want a 10-15 year roof, TPO is the best value. That's not to say TPO won't last 20 years, but there have been some issues with the original TPO, as with any generation 1 product there are always issues. For this reason, the new and improved TPO on the market, while definetly better, hasn't had 30 years to prove it's performance. But PVC has. PVC is more expensive than TPO but generally installs the same. learn more about your flat roofing options.


FWIW Genflex is now offering a Lifetime residential warranty so once I found that out Genflex is my go to membrane for all residential.


Like GT said, the install is everything. This is true on all roofs, but so much more imperative on low slope roofing. The installer matters more than the material.
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Old 08-15-2011, 01:05 PM   #4
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Re: Longevity of TPO


We generally use Versico for everything. No experiance with firestone single ply products so I can not comment. We just got genflex cert back after not installing it for years. I had no idea that anyone of them would warranty and res install. As far as EPDM most manufactures have a 25 and 30 year warranty with the 75 mil reinforced or the 90 mil respectively. TPO IIRC is 25 for Versico, 30 and 35 for GAF. Unsure on others.

PVC is a great product, just prepare to open your wallet. The TPO now is alot better but then again time will tell, lab tests only do so much. EPDM is constantly improving and is a "base" system.

Install, climate, roof penetrations and system type will all play a factor in how long any roof system will last.
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:41 PM   #5
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Re: Longevity of TPO


We have really backed off on promoting TPO as we are still seeing some major material failures on roofs installed within the past few years.

I don't really put much into the manufacturer warranty's. It's obviously an important component and we won't do a project without providing one, but at the end of the day if I can push a customer from TPO to PVC I feel a lot better about it- no matter how long the warranty is for.

Like anything new, there will be growing pains- TPO is no different. It has been around now for almost 15 years but in "roofing time" that is still a baby. We have worked with TPO since the first generation products hit the market, and even assisted in testing and trials with it for some of the major manufacturers.

Formulations are still changing, thousands of squares are being replaced on the manufacturers dime every year- and thousands more should be but aren't thanks to the fine print.

While choosing the right installer is extremely important- it pains me to say that it is not the end-all. The product needs to be stable and perform as it was intended- not only after, but more importabtly- DURING the install. Even the best installer cannot make up for flaws in formulation.

As with any product, you get what you pay for. TPO is a commodity and priced as such. If a customer demands TPO we will of course install it for them, after providing them with enough information so that we are confident that they have made an educated decision and know what they are getting.
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:35 AM   #6
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Re: Longevity of TPO


What I bagen doing is specing a base 15 year TPO and giving an option to upgrade to a 20 year pvc. Suprisingly several customers have taken me up on the offer.

I do it this way to compete against the guys offering cheap. i think it builds the value and shows the customer WHY the premium system is more expensive.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:47 AM   #7
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Quote:
Originally Posted by SinglePlyGuy View Post
We have really backed off on promoting TPO as we are still seeing some major material failures on roofs installed within the past few years.
What kind of failures have you been seeing. Sheet seperation? Degeneration? What manufacture do you normally install? Sheet thickness? Attachment? You can PM me if you want. TPO is really starting to pick up in our area, and PVC is making a come back here and there. We are starting to promote it adn an upgrade to EPDM, and most places wont even think about PVC (cost). I know they were having problems with the sheet breaking down when installed next to a building with windows that would reflect the sun down to the lower building, and some solor panel problems as well. We have yet to see any problems with the TPO its self in the past 5-10 years or so.
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Old 08-16-2011, 03:49 PM   #8
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Re: Longevity of TPO


The majority of the problems we are seeing is material breakdown from the topside, down to and exposing the scrim.

Most of the projects in question were installed within the last 10 years in both 45 and 60 mil membranes. All systems were mech attached in these cases.

At this point I can say with certainty that at least 1,000,000 sq ft has already been replaced by the manufacturer in our area (northern nj). Some not much more than 5 years old.

I won't (can't) get into particular manufacturers but it is not just one.

Rather than looking purely at "today's cost" you should look at "lifecycle cost" with your customers. There is a lot of data out there to support/dispute each system over the lifespan of the roof. A less expensive roof today usually ends up costing quite a bit more down the road.

Throwing solar into the mix is going to make an ever bigger mess of things down the road. The sheer amount of TPO that is being installed under solar arrays is staggering. When the solar needs to operate for 15-20 years and the roof needs to replaced halfway through- this is going to create quite a few problems in the finance department when the solar needs to get shut down.
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Old 08-16-2011, 05:25 PM   #9
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Last month I got 4 people ask for PVC. They wanted the best. When they got their price they all asked "what about this pvc stuff?" LOL having said that I have right now 2 TPO jobs on the books, we just finishd a TPO job today and have 1 pvc job on the books.
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:52 AM   #10
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Re: Longevity of TPO


Is there that much of a price difference between TPO and PVC where you guys are?

.05-.10/sq.ft. at the most?

Obviously it adds up on the bigger jobs but on a "typical" job of a few hundred squares you're only talking a few thousand dollars.

I understand that a few thousand can be the difference between winning or losing these days but I am finding building owners in general looking for more long-term value these days, rather than a quick fix.

When you put it all on the table, the money "saved" by going with TPO pales in comparison to the benefits provided by PVC.

Maybe its just me
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