why would u leave your roof open

Jasonthompson

Grumpy that's how I feel also, just like u said what if it leaked on a mona lisa or something of great value. Then what? most people only have a 1 million policy, u max it out then they cancel u and then try to get insurance at a good rate.

BamBamm5144

I understand where Grumpy comes from. Do I believe his way is the best way to do it? No. Does it work for him and is he most comfortable that way? Yes. Does it matter what his employees think? After all, he is the one who signs the paychecks. If they dont like it, they can find a new job. After all, Mcdonalds is always hiring.

Yancey (which is funny because thats what I call the guys when they are complaining) what is the deal with mentioning your 87000 dollar salary in every post? Quite frankly, I dont think anyone cares. Are you truly that valuable?

"ALL of my men are paid by the hour. Top journeymen/foremen start at $29.50, have health care, paid holidays and yearly production bonuses! How?, you might ask? IF you had read my first thread, you would know that I work for the best company in California. Family owned and operated since 1895! Last year we had 337 finished contracts, with contract total pricing of $7,066,000. My men work here because we take VERY good care of them."

So are they your men, or your bosses men? Not trying to start arguments but your posts contradict themselves. If you WORK for them, why do you care that they made 7 million dollar last year? Its not your business.

Anyways, I also agree that times have changed and we need to take care of our bodies. There is no point in carrying bundles up a ladder anymore. Its time consuming and harmful to the body.

Grumpy

Who carries bundles? With ladder-vators and automated hoists nobody should be carrying anything up a ladder. Infact that's against OSHA rules. It's those two items that allow me to get the materials ground staged on most jobs and not lose any production. Another controversy we can discuss at will. Move it to the roof vs move it from side to side around the roof.

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Slyfox

Grumpy, I understood your opinion/standings on this matter right from the first time we had this discussion.

I agree with you when you say you simply will not allow your guys to do it,
most roofers I know won't.

I agree that there is added risk to it, especially when you have several crews doing it, in some cases several crews at the same time.

But, here I am again discussing the matter with you, why, because you can/will not see the other side of the coin.
Doe's your opinion bother me, no, if it was not for a death in my family and the weather I would have been working on a roof this past week instead of doing repairs & estimates and probably would not have posted in this discussion because I already knew your responses from the last discussion.

Manufacturers list a time frame in which their materials will hold up against the weather while exposed.

Contractors give examples of having structures set with underlayments exposed for both short and long term time frames with minimal problems.

Manufacturers and Contractors recommend a good underlayment in case of storm damage, if the roof loses some shingles, tiles, slate, etc., the underlayment will hold out the weather until the roof can be repaired.

I know some roofers in here and a couple in my area that say "claim" they have never had a roof leak or wind damage on their roofs.
I on the other hand am human like you mentioned, thus am subject to human error.
I have only had two leaks while the underlayment was left exposed, but,
I have had dozens of leaks after the roof was completed.
I actually figured the percentage ratio for how many times it was our "the roofers" fault back in 99' and it was a little over 3%, which means 97% of the leaks occurred because of something the home owners themselves or another contractor they hired to do work after the roof was on did or did not do.
That still leaves 3% of the leaks occurring because I or one of my roofers goofed, which means I have a higher risk factor of damaging Mona Lisa with a completed roof than with an exposed dry-in.

__________________

Grumpy

Sly I do see the other side of the coin and I have conceeded many times in the past, as well as this post, a dry in can be made dry with much effort and care. I fail to see the benefit to me or the customer for that extra care and extra effort when I actually find it easier and safer to tear off and roof in sections. This way everything is complete daily.

I have seen multiple dry-ins catastrophically fail simply in my random daily travels throughout my roofing career, therefore I know there is the potential for failure. You yourself admitted to having failures, although minor, with dry-ins in the past. I don't want "minimal problems", I want NO problems. I have too many problems already. I am a "worrier" it's what I do, sometimes I think it's all I do. I need less things in my head to worry about, not more.

The difference between the roof leaking while I am on the job and after completion is who's insurane pays for the damaged mona lisa. If I am on the job it's my insurance. If the job is complete it's the building owner's insurance.


I tend to go against the grain with many things, I try hard not to fall into whats easier and faster. I try damned hard to maintain my levels of standards although there are forces constantly tempting me to break my standards. Like you and everyone else, my views and opinions have been formed by my life's experiences. Maybe my extreme caution is a character flaw or maybe it's a character trait.

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

English Roofer

Guys i think we have come to the the 'Is the glass half full or half empty' stage, I am a optimist so i would take the 5% risk of the roof leaking and damaging that Mona Lisa where Grumpy is a pesimist and would take the other view!
Thats not to say eiither of us is right or wrong we just have different views and this is a forum where different views are expressed!
Great post and great forum! keep them comming!
Cheers
Dave

__________________
'I can resist anything but temptation'- Oscar Wilde
www.drroofing.co.uk

Slyfox

Grumpy, you may not realize it, but, you just ended the one and only problem I had with your past postings on this subject when you said
(a dry in can be made dry with much effort and care).
I was never trying to argue the point that you should do things the way I do.
I did not mean to make it sound like is if there was -0- risk involved, there's risk in all aspects of the business.
I simply didn't want you telling me it can't be do done.

Edited to be a little more clear on my above portion of this post:
In our first conversation on this subject you did end up saying that dry-ins could be made to hold up temporarily, but, than you ended that post with (I do not believe dry-ins to be dry), and than your first post in this conversation says (I do not beelive that dry-ins are dry).
If you had said you don't believe in leaving underlayments exposed due to the added risk or something to that effect,
I probably would have still joined the conversation but I would have directed my comments to the guy who started this post rather than you,
because I have no problem with agreeing to disagree which is what it comes down to with You and I.
You operate like this, I operate like that, it's all good so long as we are both doing what we believe is best for us, our employees and customers.


I have no problem with you not leaving underlayments exposed, I actually respect the fact that you hold strong to your way of doing things, I'm the same type of person, you work for me, you do it my way or not at all.


(English Roofer hit the nail square on the head,
Guys i think we have come to the the 'Is the glass half full or half empty' stage, I am a optimist so i would take the 5% risk of the roof leaking and damaging that Mona Lisa where Grumpy is a pesimist and would take the other view!
Thats not to say eiither of us is right or wrong we just have different views and this is a forum where different views are expressed!
Great post and great forum! keep them comming!
Cheers
Dave)

__________________

Grumpy

I tend to be very black and white, Sly. Sometimes you have to infer the gray area. You'll probably still hear/read me in the future saying that "A Dry in is not Dry." I understand your objection however.

I hate being a pesimest, but alas, it is who I am. :( Didn't you notice the name?

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

yanceyman1

You think MY name is funny, BAMBAMM. Anyway, IF you had bothered to read my posts, you would see that I only mentioned my salary in one post. The only other time it was on here was in reference to the previous post. But to answer your first question, "are you truly that valuable?", that has got to be the dumbest question anyone has ever asked me. Hell yes, I'm that valuable. I would say the same if I were being paid $100,000. Wouldn't you? I've been here 11 years and as the my division's bottom line has grown, so has my salary. So the real question should be, "Do I earn my salary?" My boss seems to think so. And quite frankly he is the only one I need to care. As for the second question, as a manager of a division with in a company, I consider all the men who work under me to be, "my men". Any good manager would see it that way. And as far as why I care about my companies bottom line, read my answer to question #1. When you say it's not my company, your dead wrong! See, I love my job. I love the roofing industry and thank God everyday that he blessed me with the talent to get paid at what I love to do. Did this all fall in my lap one day? NO. I have been doing this for 27 years. Yes, I was lucky to have landed a job with such a great company. So, yes, it IS my company. I give them loyalty, reliability, respect and hard work. And I get the same in return. I can only hope that someday you too can love what you do as much as I do. Because from the sound of your post you don't give your company much respect or loyalty. I got that from the, "it's not your company", crack. Or if your a business owner, your men must not respect you much. Why else would you make a remark like that. If that is the case, try treating them better. If your an employer or an employee, its all the same, you get out of a business relationship what you put into it. Good luck and God bless.

__________________
"The Best Way To Appreciate Your Job Is To Imagine Yourself Without One". OSCAR WILDE

Grumpy

I do agree with Yance that any employee should love the comapnyt hey work for as if it was there own or else find another company to work for. Well Yance didn't say that, but I am paraphrasing alot. I'd love to have more employees that truly cared about the company.

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing