Drip edge - Page 3 - Roofing Talk

tomstruble · 05-04-2009, 02:46 PM

how long a run do you do before you start to consider expansion?

OUTLAW · 05-04-2009, 03:03 PM

I have been told that a 2"x3" downspout will support 900 sq.ft of roof in a downpour.
And a 3"x4" will support 2700 sf ft.
And either one should not be placed over 40'

Ed the Roofer · 05-05-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Always err on the side of caution ed. I too read Smacna's book a few years back. 35' seems to work a little bit better and on the average home doesn't cause comsmetic worries. Even though an over sized downspout is twice the size, I wouldn't double the run. 80' is a long run for garbage and crap to build up in the gutter.

I always quote them for multiple downspouts when they reach 40 feet anyways.

Also, if there are several inside or outside corners.

Where do I want the water to wind up?

Ed

Grumpy · 05-05-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OUTLAW

I have been told that a 2"x3" downspout will support 900 sq.ft of roof in a downpour.
And a 3"x4" will support 2700 sf ft.
And either one should not be placed over 40'

IMO there are too many variables to throw a per square foot variable and call it a day. How steep is the roof? How many trees? How many corners and valleys? What type of roof?

I definetly would think 900' would be a strech.

Grumpy · 05-05-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomstruble

how long a run do you do before you start to consider expansion?

I think I once read 80' on aluminum gutter. But I have to check that out, it may have been 60'. Not often we have straight runs longer than 59'.

user182 · 05-05-2009, 05:24 PM

Do you have to notch the gutter apron around the gutter spikes?

Do you feel that installing gutter apron instead of drip edge would give me a selling advantage because no one else around here is doing it?

Grumpy · 05-06-2009, 02:54 PM

We don't use spikes. We use hidden hangers. Spike and ferruls fall out. I'm suprised you still use spike out North by you... However on the jobs where we tear off old spike gutters, it's nailed right through the flashing.

Why would you notch? The flashing is there to protect the fascia against ice backup. Notching it will give the ice a place to go.

I always try to be different and be the black sheep in a good way. Showing the 1" drip edge vs the 2" gutter apron and explaining the difference is a great way to stand out. Further more ask them... "Why do you think it's called a gutter apron? The gutter apron is intended to be installed when installing a gutter and the drip edge when no gutter is installed. Some guys may want to install the drip edge, maybe cause that's the way their daddy showed them, but it simply is not the right way of doing it and they daddy showed them wrong. I want to do the job right no matter what, and the best part is it doesn't even cost you any more to do it right in this case, than it does to do it wrong with the drip edge."

Free upgrade?! Cha-Ching!

user182 · 05-06-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

We don't use spikes. We use hidden hangers. Spike and ferruls fall out. I'm suprised you still use spike out North by you... However on the jobs where we tear off old spike gutters, it's nailed right through the flashing.

Why would you notch? The flashing is there to protect the fascia against ice backup. Notching it will give the ice a place to go.

I always try to be different and be the black sheep in a good way. Showing the 1" drip edge vs the 2" gutter apron and explaining the difference is a great way to stand out. Further more ask them... "Why do you think it's called a gutter apron? The gutter apron is intended to be installed when installing a gutter and the drip edge when no gutter is installed. Some guys may want to install the drip edge, maybe cause that's the way their daddy showed them, but it simply is not the right way of doing it and they daddy showed them wrong. I want to do the job right no matter what, and the best part is it doesn't even cost you any more to do it right in this case, than it does to do it wrong with the drip edge."

Free upgrade?! Cha-Ching!

When I install new gutters I always use screw type hangers.

I am assuming that you install gutter apron on every job and frequently you will have existing gutters in place. It seams like the gutter apron would extend into the gutter.

Whether the gutter is secured by nails or hangers you would still have to cut it or notch it because the gutter spikes would keep it from going down all the way.

Do you have a picture you can post of a completed installation?

Grumpy · 05-06-2009, 08:02 PM

You do not need to cut or notch it. The gutter is installed with some temporary nails. Then the flashing is installed which will go under the shingles and cover the back of the gutter. Then the hangers will be installed, hooked onto the front lip of the gutter which will press against the flashing, and the flashing will press against the gutter's back. Then a fastener will be installed in the hanger to squeeze the flashign tight against the gutter. Preferrably that fastener will be spaced evenly with the rafter tails so that the fastener penetrates through the flashing, gutter, fascia board, and into the rafter tail.

No I do not install gutter apron on every job, only the jobs we are installing gutters. Or else I adhere my ice shield to the existing flashing. I went to look at a job today where there is no flashing, nor drip edge. If you stand at the bottom of the hosue and look upwards you can see light between the back of the gutter and face of the fascia. No gutter flashing. So the cure, make sure to install a few fasteners to hold the gutter tight, remove all brackets, install the flashing as described above, install the new brackets as described above, problem solved. So the short answer is no the apron does not need to be notched, the brackets must be removed before the flashing/apron is installed.

user182 · 05-06-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

You do not need to cut or notch it. The gutter is installed with some temporary nails. Then the flashing is installed which will go under the shingles and cover the back of the gutter. Then the hangers will be installed, hooked onto the front lip of the gutter which will press against the flashing, and the flashing will press against the gutter's back. Then a fastener will be installed in the hanger to squeeze the flashign tight against the gutter. Preferrably that fastener will be spaced evenly with the rafter tails so that the fastener penetrates through the flashing, gutter, fascia board, and into the rafter tail.

No I do not install gutter apron on every job, only the jobs we are installing gutters. Or else I adhere my ice shield to the existing flashing. I went to look at a job today where there is no flashing, nor drip edge. If you stand at the bottom of the hosue and look upwards you can see light between the back of the gutter and face of the fascia. No gutter flashing. So the cure, make sure to install a few fasteners to hold the gutter tight, remove all brackets, install the flashing as described above, install the new brackets as described above, problem solved. So the short answer is no the apron does not need to be notched, the brackets must be removed before the flashing/apron is installed.

I guess what you are saying is that if the job has existing gutters you will remove the fasteners, then install the apron and secure the gutter with hangers. Right?

You’re not installing new gutters with every job, right?

05-04-2009, 03:03 PM	#22
OUTLAW Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: VIRGINIA Posts: 168	I have been told that a 2"x3" downspout will support 900 sq.ft of roof in a downpour. And a 3"x4" will support 2700 sf ft. And either one should not be placed over 40' __________________ http://www.ClarkRoofingAndSiding.com

05-05-2009, 05:24 PM	#26
user182 user182 Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 313	Do you have to notch the gutter apron around the gutter spikes? Do you feel that installing gutter apron instead of drip edge would give me a selling advantage because no one else around here is doing it? Last edited by user182; 05-05-2009 at 05:26 PM.

05-06-2009, 02:54 PM	#27
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 930	We don't use spikes. We use hidden hangers. Spike and ferruls fall out. I'm suprised you still use spike out North by you... However on the jobs where we tear off old spike gutters, it's nailed right through the flashing. Why would you notch? The flashing is there to protect the fascia against ice backup. Notching it will give the ice a place to go. I always try to be different and be the black sheep in a good way. Showing the 1" drip edge vs the 2" gutter apron and explaining the difference is a great way to stand out. Further more ask them... "Why do you think it's called a gutter apron? The gutter apron is intended to be installed when installing a gutter and the drip edge when no gutter is installed. Some guys may want to install the drip edge, maybe cause that's the way their daddy showed them, but it simply is not the right way of doing it and they daddy showed them wrong. I want to do the job right no matter what, and the best part is it doesn't even cost you any more to do it right in this case, than it does to do it wrong with the drip edge." Free upgrade?! Cha-Ching! __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

05-06-2009, 08:02 PM	#29
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 930	You do not need to cut or notch it. The gutter is installed with some temporary nails. Then the flashing is installed which will go under the shingles and cover the back of the gutter. Then the hangers will be installed, hooked onto the front lip of the gutter which will press against the flashing, and the flashing will press against the gutter's back. Then a fastener will be installed in the hanger to squeeze the flashign tight against the gutter. Preferrably that fastener will be spaced evenly with the rafter tails so that the fastener penetrates through the flashing, gutter, fascia board, and into the rafter tail. No I do not install gutter apron on every job, only the jobs we are installing gutters. Or else I adhere my ice shield to the existing flashing. I went to look at a job today where there is no flashing, nor drip edge. If you stand at the bottom of the hosue and look upwards you can see light between the back of the gutter and face of the fascia. No gutter flashing. So the cure, make sure to install a few fasteners to hold the gutter tight, remove all brackets, install the flashing as described above, install the new brackets as described above, problem solved. So the short answer is no the apron does not need to be notched, the brackets must be removed before the flashing/apron is installed. __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing Last edited by Grumpy; 05-06-2009 at 08:04 PM.

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05-04-2009, 02:46 PM	#21
tomstruble Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: west milford n.j. Posts: 109	how long a run do you do before you start to consider expansion?