Sub contracting pricing

Ansel

Grumpy Says: "To flash the chimney right in the first place would have been what an extra hundred bucks and some know how. But now the current owner going to pay me $850 to flash it right. Who wins? Well I do and the builder does, since the builder is goign to cut corners and save a buck where ever he can to maximize profit. $100 here and $100 there adds up to thousands saved at the end of the job."


Grumpy is 110% right and at $850 he may even be under ..... We normally get $1,900 to $2,100 per day for two man repairs .... Two men 1/2 day runs $1,250 - In the case of the chimney we would look for other issues to fill our 1/2 or full day unless the Owner only wanted their immediate issue repaired ....

But Grumpy you are CORRECT the money is in the "rework" of others and their mistakes ..... we love finding and fixing leaks ..... Good money for us doing lots of little jobs ....

As for new work on residential .... Think last one we did was 1990 something .... Commercial is another story - we like doing McDonalds (union issues with those guys but we get it done) and a couple private Contractors who have been burned by "bigger shops" ............

Grumpy

This is one man 4 hours plus materials Ansel, and yes I'd normally be $1,100 for the same job but it is literally walking distance from my office, I may even do it myself. LOL

I have said it before and I'll say it again. I can NET almost equal profit from a 1 man repair crew as I can a 5 man installation crew. In essence I make the same per truck per day, and have alot less liability on the repair side, plus usually repeat work.

I REALLY want to do more commercial, which is why I am willing to dip my toe into the new work.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Slyfox

I agree with being able to make money on repairs, but the majority of my repairs come via re-roofs rather than new construction.

I did 6 ice damn issue repairs in the last 2 weeks "that's way below average"
and only one was a new build, roofed four years ago "by a roofer no longer in business".

I have always done both new construction and re-roofs myself and atleast in my area/experiences the majority of roofers stay solely in re-roofs, thus the majority of hacks can be found in that field, all tho the new construction field certainly has it's share of them.

I bid a two layer, 8/12, one story, hard access (double handle materials) re-roof Monday and out of four estimates I was the only one over the $250.00 per square mark, talk about low ballers.
I'm not using that example out of anger either, I actually got the job even tho the next highest bidder was at $225.00 per square.
(Word of mouth sales!!)

I make less monies per piece doing new construction, but,
I use less labor,time and equippment as well, thus make the same monies in the end.

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Grumpy

Slyfox. I understand what youa re saying less monies per piece, and I understad the theory of less labor and time. However I don't agree that in my experience that theory is reality. At the end of the day I need to make a certain ammount of money, it doesn't matter new construction, repairs, or tear offs the dollar ammount required to cover overhead and profit needs to be the same.

My point is there is MORE head aches and MORE time and MORE hassels in new construction. Sure I don't need to setup tarps, sure I don't need to worry about falling cut offs scratching siding, sure I can care less if I spill some nails on new construction. What I personally can not deal with is making 4 visits to a job to do the work that should have been done in one day. What I can not deal with is bidding to flash 2 plumbing pipes and having to go back to the job to flash in 2 more and the building telling me if I don't do it for free he's going to hire somene else and take it out of what he owes me. What I can not deal with is having no skylights on my plans and having 4 skylights installed and the builder expecting me to flash them in for free. See my point?

For me residential tear offs are In-And-Out usually in one day, hardly ever exceeding two days. I know beforehand what I am dealing with because it's there and there are seldom any suprises. I can be MOST effecient dealing with what is known rather than cleaning up the builders messes and his lack of planning. Get in, do the job right, get out, get paid... Or new construction, get in, get in again, get in a 3rd time, punch list, and then wait 90 days to get paid. For me the choice is a no-brainer.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Slyfox

If I had to deal with the crap you talk about grumpy I would steer clear of new work also. I have waited 30 days to get paid before but never longer than 33 days on a residential job.
Even on the government work like the Howland Public Library and Youngstown Jewish Center projects were we got paid in two pieces, I still got final payment in less than 60 days.
The first thing I do when approached by a builder is send them a "Price List", and than I bid the job, so when changes occur they know they will being paying for those changes. I obviously do lose some jobs due to my pricing, but I get paid for all changes and in a reasonable time frame on those I do get.

That's why I have always done both new construction and re-roofs.

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ronbryanroofing

Sly's right Grumpy I too would be discouraged to go back... go back routine like you speak of and if I did I would also be concerned and share your contempt.

I rarely go back, and if we do it is because a masonry chimney was not through the roof yet. We are also spoiled here because the Builders generally do their own dry in and we only run drip, shingles and vent/ accessories.

Primarily wood trim (however we are seeing more composite), but is run by the carpenters giving the subs time to do their penetrations and these carpenters tend to leave up their staging (wall brackets with railings)
It doesn't take long to walk through a building a inspect the staging before we get on them.

Bodhisativa

We've come to the same conclusion with new construction as Grumpy. For all the headaches and return visits because some plumber decided a valley would be a good place for his stack, it's just not worth it. Most general contractors can't afford our price but we do have a few that we do all their jobs for exclusively as they've been in business long enough to realize that you get what you pay for.

metal-man

subs in AR are getting 20 on 20 off for 1 layer walkers. all depends on where you work at!