Maybe you should lower your price.

ROOFMAX

work smarter not harder. i know of a way thats proven to increase your profits, but ya have a fit every time i menton it . but i know for a fact . itll help ya rase your prices . not lower. thats not the answer. im still one of yaw.

Grumpy

Ed the answer to the question is how much higher are you than your competitors on average? I tried doing what you mentioned, well tried figuring the price to do it their way. 15 LB felt, bare minimum ice shield to satsify code and nothing more, cheap chitty iko shingles, 3 tab for ridges instead of shadow ridge, reuse the flashings, use mushrooms for kitche and bathroom vents... I wouldn't be comfortable warrantying a roof like that.... and guys would still be cheaper than me!

The job I sold the other day, the one that I didn't give any thought and they faxed it over an hour after I emailed it to them, I found out one of the guys I was bidding against and he's real high on average. My old boss used to sub work from him until he hired me for sales and the guy got pissed that we were moving into his market.


Ed think about it this way. If ALL our closing ratios suck that means customers aren't saying yes to anyone. I know alot of the jobs I am bidding are just sitting idle, nobody's getting the work. So the only thing I can do is keep doing what I have always done and do my call backs, periodic emails, direct mail and anything I can do to stay in touch with my unsold customer base. Eventually the dam will break and all those unsold jobs will flood in.

I'm having the same doubts as you but every time I fall into that funk I reming myself that we're not the most expensive and we're one of the best in my market. I've ran through every scenario and method I could think of to change who I am, but then realied it's not who I am that is costing me jobs... it's the economy and people scared to pull the trigger.

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

user182

Any type of excuse is unacceptable.

I take full responsibility for the results I produce. I have had a lot of days with no work. It’s because I haven’t properly developed or executed my marketing & sales process. Or maybe because I’m trying to make too much off each job.

Detroit is probably the worst economic environment in the country and I know there are customers out there buying.

The only way to win is to outsell & out market the other guy. You have to be better prepared and more professional.

You have to choose who you market to.

I know for a fact who is more likely to buy from more.

The more educated they are, the higher their income and the higher their home value is the more likely they are to buy from me.

The less educated they are, the lower their income and the lower their home value the less likely they are to buy from me. These people tend to shop for low price first and worry about what they bought later on. Once in a while I get referrals that fit this demographic and they end up buying low price. It’s their mindset and you can’t change it.

Grumpy

jack I mean this in the kindest most non herrassing and un-offending way possible... Please take no offense.


Anyone who thinks that the reason the job isn't sold on the first sitting is due to their lack of sales skills or in your words "executed my marketing & sales process" is a complete and udder FOOL. Not EVERY customer is in a position to buy on day one. Have we all not price shopped our own purchases for a little while before we finally pulled the trigger.

You will see that in my posts I mentioned that it seems like we are doing alot of quotes but they aren't buying, not buying from me nor from anyone. How do I know they are not buying from anyone? well I drive bye, I ask. This is something outside of my control. They're just not ready. I can not force them to buy. Oh sure I can make them soooo uncomfortable in their own home that they will feel forced to sign but then I will go to HELL with the rest of the closers and "salesmen".


Yes out marketing and out selling is important... but there are things that are outside of our control, thus we can't do anything about them. To think you have to lower your price, or in your words are making to much on each job is ridiculious. As I pointed out in my thread if i were to match scopes of work of the guys cheating their insurance and taxes and other such legal burdens, I still couldn't compete. Making less is not an option. I already make the bare minimum on my jobs. Well, I am sure a few would disagree, I could go cheaper but at a result of what? Why work for free? I've had enough practice.


The bottom line in this thread is that you can't win them all, and while we should certainly try, we can't. Sometimes people will hire someone else for what ever reason, it's not always price. Sometimes people hold off for a little while because they feel they have a little more life left in the roof and want to milk it for all it's worth. Sometimes they simply can not afford it, period. It's not always our faults.

Sometimes when they say no, they aren't saying "No." but are really saying "Not right now." This is why we need to constantly follow up with them and NEVER put them in a position of discomfort or pressure or they will avoid you like the plague and you'll never ever get the sale. Eventually after little daughter Suzy gets her braces and the family does what ever else they deem to be more important (maybe vacation or a nw car), they'll need to do something about that roof... and I'll be there to land the sale because all the "closers" have written the job off thinking they did something wrong and that the sale is lost when infact it wasn't lost... only delayed.

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

user182

The point is if they are only kicking tires and they are not going to buy for another 6 months it's too soon to go out and give them a
quote.

Your problem is you don’t have the slightest idea how to qualify a prospect, I’m not perfect at it but at least I have a process for qualifying.

Name calling isn’t going to help anything, I expect better from you than that.

You guys have been complaining about a low close ratio, look at how much of your income producing time is being wasted, about 90% of it if you’re only closing 10%, and you’re calling me a fool.

By the way I just got off the phone with a prospect and I asked him if he would be comfortable giving me a “yes” or “no” answer and he said yes. I ask the prospect about the decision before I even set the appointment.

You can’t understand anything about my sales process because you haven’t been trained or exposed to anything other than what you are doing. You are locked into your own mindset and can’t accept anything that does not line up with it.

The reason I brought up lowering my price is that almost every job we do gets done in 1 day. We just did a 45 sq 1 layer tear off with a 7:12 pitch and we got it done in 1 day.

Until you accept 100% responsibility for the results of a sales call you will never be able to improve.

Ed the Roofer

Qualifying is good on face value, but I also have to take on many leads that don't seem that good in the first place, but do wind up paning out, which never ceases to surprise me.

It's not me or my sales methods Jack.

During any other periods of time, I close around 52% and the only things that have changed are the material price increases and the economy. I still look just as handsome as ever, so that can't be it.

You can't objectively say that 90% of my time is running around wasted if my previous closing numbers were currently holding true.

At that ratio, you could say that 45% of my running around time is wasted, but I am not going to be able to close them all.

Also, I think that Grumpy expressed himself very forthright in his prefacing statement, for You personally to not take the comments directly towards you, yet that is exactly how you took them. And, I am not just saying something like that in defence of Grumpy, because he can choose his own words to make his position, but it seems as if your tone get's so darned defensive, as if the point of this and other topics are pointed directly at you. They are not.

Look at your comments yesterday, when you were quoting from Patton and someone named Dan Kennedy, when you didn't get a reply within four hours, you started castigating everyone for not replying, which you said proved your point.

It didn't seem like you were trying to make a point to increase the discussion, but rather, just posting good salesmans or Generals comments for all to see, or at least, that is the way I took your multiple posts of various quotes.

Show me in written words and actions What And How to do things to change, like your example of; "Will You Be Able To Give Me A Yes Or A No Answer Today When We Meet".

Now, thats a good example.....It is also one that I do use, or some variation of the same.

There are times in the intial phone conversation that I have even told people that my price will reflect our entire total system and will typically be higher than the majority of contractors and if they are just seeking a lower price to choose from, then would it be worth considering having us to come out to provide the proposal in the first place.

Usually, that type of conversation takes place when the prospective customer has allowed us/me to engage them in a more complete dialog and probe in more depth than the typical call for an estimate.

If you know methods and tactics that have proven to work, share them, rather than tell everyone else that they suck, period.

Ed

__________________
Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That.
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

Ed the Roofer

By the way, just so you comprehend the point I was making, so that you don't get the opinion that I was chastising you, I was not.

I would like to point out that you post very good and useful information and assist greatly in the furthering of topics, but your posting comes off as having a very hard and bitter tone to it on more than one occassion.

I for one am really glad that you do desire to engage in these discussions, because they make them more furtive and delve deeper because of it.

Ed

__________________
Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That.
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

user182

Without taking 100% responsibility for the results of a sales call we will never be able to improve those results, excuses are unacceptable if you want to be highly effective.

I wasn’t referring to a post I made hours ago, I was referring to a thread that I started 9 weeks ago. The point is most people are not willing to put much effort into learning and implementing something new or beyond the ordinary, something that will help them to excel beyond being average.

If I were to provide you with a script for the initial phone call what can you provide that is of equal or greater value?

One of the reasons I left that networking group was the members didn’t have anything to offer in return for my input.

I place a high value on my time as you should also. I don’t want to waste your time or mine. If I am going to be investing my time here than there has to be reciprocity.

I don’t recall telling anyone that they suck.

I’m just sharing what I’ve learned over the years. Case in point; I’ve learned that it is always counterproductive to make excuse like “it’s the economy” or whatever.

If you or I decide to book appointments with someone that can’t buy then we are responsible for that decision.

Ed the Roofer

As far as reciprocity goes, if you don't think that I have paid my dues and shared, then you have not read many of my posts or topics.

Thats okay, I know different variations of phone call scripts that I choose to test out and see which ones work.

If and when I discover some key phrases that seem to click continually, then I will post them, but other than that, I try to really engage them in a full conversation to see what they are looking for as their satisfactory result of finally choosing their contractor.

The responses I try to elicit, is,"Gee, we never even considered that.....Or.....No one else even mentioned that to us.....etc..."

Because then, at least I found out a differentiation point to set myself apart from others that they will consider.

There you go, without me even intending on doing so, I demonstrated a good method of engaging and qualifying the potential customer.

Ed

__________________
Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That.
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

Grumpy

Do they own or respresent the owner? Yes Ok onto question number two. Are they requesting a product or service that I offer? Yes ok onto question number three. Are they within the service area that I service? Ok onto question four. Are they willing to meet with me to discuss their options and needs? Yes, Ok qualified.


Who do you think the customer is going to call in 6 months when they are ready? The guy who took the time to explain to them their options and give them a price or the guy who blew them off saying "Call me when you're ready to give me money." I'm also not making excuses, but giving reasons things happen. Pre-qualifying is dis-qualifying.


I'm not name calling. I am telling it like it is. Anyone who closes 90% is a liar or is disqualifying all but the sure things. I take no advice on sales from salesmen, infact I tend to do the opposite. I've met too many. Anyone who wouldn't meet with a prospect because they said "I might not be ready the night you come." is ludacris to me. I just can not comprehend the logic, unless of coarse you have 300 leads and only time to service 10 of them.

And you know absolutely nothing of MY training or exposure. Don't assume anything, because you know what happens when you assume. If you did know, you would not be making a comment so foolish. I have numerous training tapes going back to zig ziglar, Tom Hopkins, Brian Tracy, Napoleon Hill, Dale Carnege (sp?), David Sandler. I have audio from Monroe Porter, CCN, Certainteed, and various other manufacturers. I have so many I can't think right now. I have been trained in the Home Depot at home sales method of sales and went to their 5 day 50 hour boot camp in Atlanta and I also have their training audio for windows & siding. In addition I used to Sell door to door in high school and was the top producer at the company I worked for selling Chicago Tribune subscriptions.

Having said that, yes you are right. I use my own sales system, because nobody wants to be sold anything. I have ignored everything afore mentioned by the above authors and decided to allow my customers to tell me how they want to be sold. I choose NOT to sell because I know how to sell.

You closers go out there, hammer the home owner and dismiss the job when they say "I'm not ready yet." and I get the job when they are ready by being kind, knowledgeable, and friendly and willing to work within their schedule instead of forcing them to work within mine. Do you want to be like everyone else or stand out as the super star? Personally me, if everyone were doing what I do now, I'd be doing the opposite of what I do now. Nothign you have told us that you are doing is original and you do not stand out from the rest of the herd of rabbid hounds.


I'm not saying my system is sure fire either, obviously it isn't. My system has its' own flaws as addmittedly yours does too. Do I lose jobs to closers? Sure, but I find typically to those who are easily manipulated and probably never would have been my customer anyways. But yes, that's an excuse right there and is my first excuse of this entire discussion. Do I lose jobs to those who under bid me? Sure but those never would have been my customer because some people just buy price... and that's a fact, not an excuse. If I get a bad vibe, I will throw one more qualifying comment into the mix and that is "What will your decideding factor be when hiring a roofer, will you pick the low bidder?" That's one of those questions I only need to ask sometimes.



See I said not to take offense, but you did anyways. I'll leave you with this. For as great as you think you are... You are the one who wants to lower their price, not me. Think about that.

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing