Slyfox

Since I went self employed in 94 I have never had 'year to date' sales ratio under 50% so I'll stick to my methods for now.
I appreciate the advice tho.

I always pay attention to the roofs near by and point those samples out first saying, well this Tamko is on that home there, or this GAF is on that home across the street.
That's kind of what your talking about.

I have a question that maybe you or grumpy can help me out with,
I think it fits this topic.

If I sale 'advertise - push' one product, won't that increase my chances of selling a 'material failure' line of shingles being that all manufacturers have them from time to time.
They all have had them, not just in the 90's but in the 2000's also.

I know your not saying you only sale one manufacturer Jack,
but I know of several roofers here in my area that do.

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user182

I think there is always a risk that a product line could go bad.

Your suppliers may mean well in recommending a product to you but their advice could be biased.

When I got in the business many years ago my suppliers told me that Globe was a good shingle. They had a lot of curling problems and now they are out of business. However their 20 year shingle did last 20 years because I am in the process of replacing the shingles on an apartment complex that I did 20 years ago.

user182

That’s an outstanding record; you are above average and also consistent.

If it works keep doing it.

Slyfox

I meant roofers not suppliers.
I have seen numerous roofers state they only sale OC, Certainteed, etc., and will only go with another brand if the home owner insist.

Being there's a chance with any line and all lines have had thier problems,
wouldn't restricting your sales to one line increase your chances of a bad line?

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Slyfox

I have had a few people compliment me on my sales percentage ratio and I always feel a little weird about it because of the numbers I see posted in these forums.
I have never had a dozen estimates in one day like I have seen some in here say they have, that number would be an above normal 'week' in the busy 'late spring thru early fall' season for me.

The highest number of estimates I have ever done in a week was 14,
and that was just once, a more realistic number for me ' year to date'
would be 1 every few days.

I never actually did a study to figured that average, just guestimating.

Edited to add: i didn't include repairs, inspections and storm damage jobs in that gustimation.
Most repairs and inspections cost are flat rates and excepted or denied during the phone call.

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Grumpy

I don't even show them colors or samples until they decide to hire me and ink the contract. In my presentation book I show them two logos and tell them:

"These are the two manufacturers we prefer. There is builder grade junk out there and do it yourself grade junk out there. When it comes down to it we'll install what ever manufacturer you prefer, but if you allow me to recommend we'll be looking at Tamko and Certainteed Samples. Color doesn't affect price and anyone can get any shingle I an get. The worlds best shingle is unless if not installed properly, so let's discuss how the roof is assembled. Ok? "

If they ask why we prefer certainteed or tamko I tell them. I can tell you most people don't seem to care, and since I am putting the color decision on the back burner I'm taking one stress away from the presentation. The presentation is all abotu discussing options, but does not require making any decisions yet. I don't do my sales in a typical saleman fashion. I don't want to waste my time choosing a color, adding another 30 minutes to the sales presentation holding up samples and what not, until they've decided to hire me... and again they are not hiring me based on color or manufacturer because as I told them we will install any shingle of their prefrence and as I told them anyone can get the same shingles... then I went on to tell them what makes us better than everyone else. That's why they hire me.

I do agree offering them too many options is not a good thing, which is why I offer only one or two options. I am not a fan of the good better best... just better best. However during my presentation which is an informal educational conversation, I throw out lots of options at the customer to gauge their reactions which allows me to tailor my actual proposal, that's when I narrow down exactly what we are going to do and throw on one or two options.

What makes them crap? We do alot of repairs to other peoples roofs. Many of the roofs we repair are OC. The guys don't like the feel of working with them. They are cheap flimsy builder grade production shingles. Inferior to an old timberline (before they bought Elk and started reducing the asphalt per shingle) and definetly inferior to a Landmark.

I wish I had a 50% closing ratio and I could if I decreased my profit, since I consistantly bid against people near half my price for a shingle roof. However I sometimes think people do not truly track their numbers and are just plucking a gutt feeling number from air when I hear nice even round numbers like 50%. Every sales rep I interview to work for me has a 50% closing ratio, so they claim. I then go on to ask them why they are looking for work if they are such great sales reps. I press hard for where that number came from and often, as I said, it's based on a gutt feeling. The mind has a terrible habit of hazing ones memory.

Jack if you are doing storm chasing sales, as I think you are, 50% is low for offering a free roof.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Slyfox

I haven't did any type of tracking since 2003, with one crew going since than the numbers are not high volume enough to bother with.
When I was running multiple crews and spending time daily behind a desk and running around to several jobs a day I kept daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly records of dozens of different activities such as sales, repairs, call backs, etc.

My numbers for sales with one crew stay around 60%.
In the 90's when I was not the only one selling, our combined numbers stayed around 35 - 40%, but my personal numbers were never that low.

I didn't go from multiple crews to one because of sales or workmanship,
it was a combination of coming to terms with and dealing with a bad habit.
The down fall of the economy, which started here in my area in mid 2005,
has prolonged my re-establishing multiple crews, but it will happen.

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Grumpy

I've been thinking chris at NRG has the right idea. Screw these little jobs take on only jobs with very very large margin, keep the overhead low, do a coupe of jobs a year and make a few hundred K. My quality of life sucks constantly recruiting, hiring, training, and firing sales reps... then busting my ass to support the entire conmpany on my shoulders which should be support by multiple sales reps.

I do very well myself, exactly as you described... but why spend the same ammount of time chasing $8k jobs where I am the highest bidder by far when I can spend the same ammount of time chasing $100k jobs where I am the same ball park as every other bidder.


I should just get a job selling for a commercial roofing company, keep working 60 hour weeks and make a fuggin killing on commissions and not have to worry abotu supporting anyone's family other than my own. If I am selling in the 40% closing rate, but can't find someone to do better than 20%, what's the point?

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Slyfox

I hear ya,
I was talking to Chris on the phone the other day and the subject of him only doing a couple / few jobs a year came up, he seems very content with the way he's doing things.

I constantly find my estimates at or near the top of all given and still sale quite well,
I had a couple of the 'big commercial' companies offer me sales jobs in the late 90's, but I was to much into fox roofing at the time and passed them by, many a nights I ask myself why.
The biggest problem with me is I enjoy getting my hands dirty,
I will sale but I want to have time to install also and if I were to work sales for someone else the installing portion simply would not be an option.
I could work for a smaller residential company and be able to sell and install both, but than I would be working longer hours and making less monies than I do now doing it for myself.

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Grumpy

You once slippe dout what you were charging per square and I am about $100 higher than you are per square. I don't charge by the square, and I bet you don't either but on average... There are some companies more expensive but I am getting really frustrated charging a fair wage on residential work.

The flip is true for you and I, at this point if I go to work for someone else I'll be making a hell of alot more than I am now. I've alot more over head than you, and one sales person shouldn't be supporting it all. Try to find a sales rep worth squat and GOOD LUCK! So my choises are throw my standard out the window and become the average moderate roofer like everyone else around here or just give up and go work for someone else and make them alot of money and take what little I can.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing