Deck Armor - Roofing Talk

user182 · 02-26-2009, 05:31 PM

Contractors that push GAF are trying to sell Deck Armor over regular felt by showing the customer how easy is is to tear the felt.

I actually lost a big job last year when the HO asked if she could try to tear the Roofer Select paper. After she ripped the paper sample she said that it was not a durable material.

OUTLAW · 02-27-2009, 04:54 PM

Jack,
Why didn't you offer her a synthetic underlayment?

I mean, if she didn't want organtic felt because it tears to easy.

user182 · 02-27-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OUTLAW

Jack,
Why didn't you offer her a synthetic underlayment?

I mean, if she didn't want organtic felt because it tears to easy.

They wanted a waranty upgrade, I am certified through CertainTeed but not GAF.

CT requires roofers select paper.

I had a similar encounter yesterday. When I spoke to the prospect on the phone he said he didn't want regular felt because it would deteriorate over time. He also wanted a better warranty.

When I gave the presentation he said that the 5 star warranty and roofers select paper would be acceptable.

The point is GAF contractors are making a big deal about underlayment.

tinner666 · 02-27-2009, 08:25 PM

All the manufacturers are making a big deal on underlay. It's all about them making more money. Felt won't make the roof any better. It's just an upsell. Or, as I suspect, they have No/Zero/Nil faith in their own product.

OUTLAW · 02-28-2009, 08:10 AM

If you read the warranty requirements for 5-star you will see that roofers select is not required. # 15 felt is the minimum. Does not matter who's felt it is. As far ice and water sheild goes, you are required to use winterguard.

tomstruble · 02-28-2009, 08:13 AM

Frank do you feel underlayment is ever nesessary?Or is it more or less just to keep the deck dry while you complete the roof?

tinner666 · 02-28-2009, 08:32 AM

Tom, I use it all the time. I&W under flat-lock to prevent condensation on the bottom of the metal. No other reason for it there.
I run one or 2 courses of I&W on roofs.
As a rule, if the stuff is in my way on chimneys, walls or otherwise, I cut it out of the way.

The 15 year asphalt shingles were good to go for 18-22 years with or without any felt. I'll cut awrinkle from the felt without a second thought.

To me, Roof installation is foremost in my thoughts. Not underlay installation. Since I might have to leave a roof open, I'll felt like I'm roofing, but once I start coming up the roof, I don't worry about it.

tinner666 · 02-28-2009, 08:34 AM

"Or is it more or less just to keep the deck dry while you complete the roof?"
When the sheathing runs horizonal with the eave, felt helps show the lines if they would otherwise land on a crack.

tinner666 · 02-28-2009, 08:45 AM

I read a quote by Lefty the other day. Something to the effect that to learn to roof, you should tear off roofing. AND analize what did and didn't work.
I have seen leaks caused by shoddy work that were 'hidden' by the underlay. A side effect of that is that the felt stayed saturated and kept the wood wet, often leading to extensive wood damage.

What the heck, if installation is screwed up, lets find a leak then, not a year later with extensive damage. I'll never just rely on underlay to protect my customers. I tell them that. I also tell them I'll use any they want, other than I&W on the whole roof.

Sorry for the rambling. I'm not as good as Egg, Lefty, Mike, OS, and some others at expressing my thoughts coherently.

tomstruble · 02-28-2009, 10:24 AM

no-no ramble on the more i talk to you the more i learn how to give my customers a better more thought out job thanks for taking the time

Tom

02-26-2009, 05:31 PM	#1
user182 user182 Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 313	Deck Armor Contractors that push GAF are trying to sell Deck Armor over regular felt by showing the customer how easy is is to tear the felt. I actually lost a big job last year when the HO asked if she could try to tear the Roofer Select paper. After she ripped the paper sample she said that it was not a durable material. Last edited by user182; 02-26-2009 at 09:59 PM.

02-28-2009, 08:32 AM	#7
tinner666 Slate and Metal Roofer Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 198	Tom, I use it all the time. I&W under flat-lock to prevent condensation on the bottom of the metal. No other reason for it there. I run one or 2 courses of I&W on roofs. As a rule, if the stuff is in my way on chimneys, walls or otherwise, I cut it out of the way. The 15 year asphalt shingles were good to go for 18-22 years with or without any felt. I'll cut awrinkle from the felt without a second thought. To me, Roof installation is foremost in my thoughts. Not underlay installation. Since I might have to leave a roof open, I'll felt like I'm roofing, but once I start coming up the roof, I don't worry about it. __________________ SLate Repairs, Richmond, Va. Contractor Domain Name Sales Yes, I Sell them. DIY Roof Help Richmond, Va. Tinner666 Window Flashing Tutorial

02-28-2009, 08:34 AM	#8
tinner666 Slate and Metal Roofer Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 198	"Or is it more or less just to keep the deck dry while you complete the roof?" When the sheathing runs horizonal with the eave, felt helps show the lines if they would otherwise land on a crack. __________________ SLate Repairs, Richmond, Va. Contractor Domain Name Sales Yes, I Sell them. DIY Roof Help Richmond, Va. Tinner666 Window Flashing Tutorial

02-28-2009, 08:45 AM	#9
tinner666 Slate and Metal Roofer Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 198	I read a quote by Lefty the other day. Something to the effect that to learn to roof, you should tear off roofing. AND analize what did and didn't work. I have seen leaks caused by shoddy work that were 'hidden' by the underlay. A side effect of that is that the felt stayed saturated and kept the wood wet, often leading to extensive wood damage. What the heck, if installation is screwed up, lets find a leak then, not a year later with extensive damage. I'll never just rely on underlay to protect my customers. I tell them that. I also tell them I'll use any they want, other than I&W on the whole roof. Sorry for the rambling. I'm not as good as Egg, Lefty, Mike, OS, and some others at expressing my thoughts coherently. __________________ SLate Repairs, Richmond, Va. Contractor Domain Name Sales Yes, I Sell them. DIY Roof Help Richmond, Va. Tinner666 Window Flashing Tutorial Last edited by tinner666; 02-28-2009 at 04:14 PM.

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02-27-2009, 04:54 PM	#2
OUTLAW Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: VIRGINIA Posts: 167	Jack, Why didn't you offer her a synthetic underlayment? I mean, if she didn't want organtic felt because it tears to easy.

02-28-2009, 08:10 AM	#5
OUTLAW Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: VIRGINIA Posts: 167	If you read the warranty requirements for 5-star you will see that roofers select is not required. # 15 felt is the minimum. Does not matter who's felt it is. As far ice and water sheild goes, you are required to use winterguard.

02-28-2009, 08:13 AM	#6
tomstruble Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: west milford n.j. Posts: 109	Frank do you feel underlayment is ever nesessary?Or is it more or less just to keep the deck dry while you complete the roof?

02-28-2009, 10:24 AM	#10
tomstruble Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: west milford n.j. Posts: 109	no-no ramble on the more i talk to you the more i learn how to give my customers a better more thought out job thanks for taking the time Tom