GAF Shingle Designer

FLRoofPro

As fine a product as Camelot is, its price puts it in the realm of what we can install metal roofs for. It is right in line with what we put on DECRA Shingle or MetalWorks for. Most want a metal product in lieu of an asphalt product if they have the budget for it. So Camelot may not reach mainstream, but it is a fine premium product. As a matter of fact, the Camelot job we are doing now chose it over a DECRA roof because of appearance. They liked the look better.

Heard Dave was no longer at GAF. Working on consulting ideas at present from what I understand.

Grumpy...your right, it is hard to beat the low prices out there some times. Especially these days. I have found that we have success in areas where the clients are more discerning and willing to let you educate them on the best value for their dollar spent. Sold one not too long ago that was $7k over my competion on a 45sq house. Asked him why he chose us and he said it was because he felt he was getting more for his money. He was right. We spend a lot of time explaining the difference in how we put our roofs on and the systems we offer.

Grumpy

FL I am alot like you in my approach. I'm not going to be the cheapest and do not try. We are almost always doing more for the money and if they get 4 quotes we'll be the 2nd highest. However compare scope of work and we're almost always doing more work than any of the other 3.

The problem this year is there are fewer and fewer customers willing to pay the premium, most seem to want the cheap commodity roof. Most seem to think they'll be moving in 1 - 2 years when "the market breaks"... so many so called contractors are killing themselves for beer and cheeseburger money. There are guys doing work for literally below what my cost would be for labor, labor burdens and materials. Forget any over head or profit... less than my cost.

Forget upselling camelots when there are guys working below cost and I have to compete with them day in and day out. Well I do always try to upsell, always, but when it comes down to it the customer sees the price difference between a 30 year landmark/timberline and between a shingle like camelot and just laughs in most cases. Come to think of it we haven't done a premium or luxury shingle on a job other than a new construction job, not once ever. We don't do new construction anymore, so I hope that doesn't mean our last luxury job is done.



LOL true story, one of my sales reps was always complaining how high we were, how low this company he used to work for currently is. He left us and went back to work for them. I got my hands on a scalp, a competitors quote, his name was on it. When I looked at our quotes not only were we cheaper by $100 on a $14,600 job but we were doing a tremendous ammount of work more than any of the other bidders. I laughed and laughed and laughed and was pretty much dancing around the office today in such a great mood. I don't know what this story has to do with this thread but I felt like sharing

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

TOMROD

I understand trying to sell Camelot is hard becuase of its price - i've been telling my marketing folks that for years. What if I reduced the cost/price by dropping weight? The product would lose half the thickness. I think the product would still look good. What are your thoughts? Would this help?

P.S. What price are you guys getting Camelot for? I don't know these things...I only how much it costs us to make. Remember, i'm an R&D guy - not sales or marketing.

GAF Sells Performance...Not Weight (our new slogan)

Grumpy

Consumers can care less about weight. To be honest, neither can I. It lost it's meaning years ago when the market shiften from organic to fiberglass as a primary matt. Besides didn't GAF already cut the weight on all their products during the 2008 asphalt shortage? All my suppliers have said more pallets are being shipper per truck, and the trucks are only allowed to carry so much weight.

I can look up camelot on Monday for you no problem. If I forget to reply post a reminder, since my memory sucks. I have all my price lists at the office.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

FLRoofPro

No question that a lower price, lighter weight Camelot would sell more. The weight of the product not only cost more in materials, but in labor as well. At 7 bundles per square as opposed to 3 or 4, it take our crews much longer to install the product.

I know the marketing folks probably target the premiums like Camelot to be a Tile/Composite alternative. If they gave us a lighter weight product that looked the same and cost less (around Lifetimes or Capstone), the volume would likely increase ten fold in my opinion.

Grumpy

I'm paying 226 a square for camelots.

I'm not sure about 10 fold, but I agree volume would increase.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

FLRoofPro

We just paid $210.50 for last 140sq job. That is discounted rate.

TOMROD

The concern is when you drop weight...you drop thickness...and Marketing has always compared thicknessess to other products. Is thickness something you guys think is critical?

Grumpy

let's be real here Tom. You and I both know if it's an asphalt shingle it'll be repalced or covered within 20 years. So what's the point of thickness? IMO, look. The only point in the thickess is the nice shadow lines, but can you really see those from the ground?

Sure it looks nice on the sample board, and the salesman gets to say "our product is thicker and heavier", but compared to what? I'm just trying to say that while I think thickness does matter a little, it's not the end all tell all answer to why people buy shingles.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Ed the Roofer

Increase the thickness of the bottom butt end and taper the rest of the shingle to a standard weight thickness and you will have increased the thick optical illusion affect that the higher end shingles are going for, without adding substantially to the weight of the product, similar to the taper of an actual cedar shake.

Ed

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