GAF Shingle Designer

TOMROD

Hello Everyone,

I have worked 10-years for GAF Material Corp. I design roofing products (mostly shingles), e.g. Camelot and Grand Slate are my designs. I also have worked in lamination and self-seal adhesive development. I spend most of my time investigaing new ways to reduce product cost while making sure durabily is not effected - I am the defence department for product durability LOL.

I look forward to discussing roofing topics with you all - if you all don't mind. It's hard for me (as a designer) to get feedback about the effect my products have on the customer (you...the roofer). I hope this forum will open that communication channel.

Regards,

TOMROD

Ed the Roofer

Welcome to the site TR,

I am sure we can accommodate you in the the discussion aspect.

What precisely would you like to know or get feedback on?

Ed

__________________
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Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

Grumpy

Premiums cost too much IMO. This last year when all the prices were going batty, I was seeing the premiums holding their price. Why is that? Could it be they were over priced in the first place? That's my opinion. I think more people would do them if they were more reasonable, but then again you probably don't want everyone doing them.

Finally At what point did slateline change from a 40 year to a lifetime and what changes to the product did you make to warrant the increased warranty term?



Nothing against you, it may come off as an attack. I kinda dislike GAF and BMCA for their monopilization tactics and over priced products to fund said monopilization. I do however welcome some in your area of expertise to chat with us, welcome aboard!

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

TOMROD

Grumpy...I take no offence.

"monopilization tactics"...not the first time i've heard that. Anyone who is the biggest will be seen the same.

I'm a technical person - not a business person, but i'll try and explain perhaps why premium product prices didn't change during that period.

Price of asphalt (follows oil pricing) jumped from $300/ton to $900/ton. Timberline and 3-tabs production rate is very high and is greatly influenced by the asphalt price increases. Our premiums aren't made that often and we build our inventory around the country pretty high; therefore, the higher priced asphalt wasn't effecting the price so much and they stayed steady.

Slateline...Business decision are made everyday is all I can say. From a technical POV I have no comment.

Ed...i'm just here to listen to VOC (voice of the customer). I'm not in Marketing or Sales...so I won't be beating around the bush. I just want to hear how my products perform, what is important to the homeowner and contractor.

Grumpy

Business decision... I agree. That's what I thought the answer was. Although I think "marketing decision" is more accurate. Kinda like when GAF took their 25 year timberlines and said hey let's call 'em year year. Then everyone else followed suite. No changes were made to the products though... just a marketing decision.

I was selling GAF religiously at that time, then the price increases came as they started buying up everyone in site. At that time I decided I didn't want to fund the destruction of a competitive and fair market and began searchign for alternatives. i went to Tamko, I always thought they made a great product and are a "family owned" (which is a nice way of saying privately owned) company. Plus I actually think their architectural product to be superior (at that time for sure, witht he standard AR they had in all their shingles). I did make a switch to Certainteed though because Tamko doesn't have the kinds of contractor programs that Certainteed and GAF have. When I inquired with Tamko they said they really had no plans on the horizon.

I do not lock any of my customers into just one brand. Infact in my marketing I include both the Tamko and Certaitneed logos. That'd be stupid for me to lock down to one manufacturer, and really what's the point. There is a point of loyalty and a point of Hey I still want the sale, if they request something else and I don't feel it to be a crap product, I will install it. Plus it's always ncie to try something new from time to time. When customers ask me why I don't like GAF, my answer is two fold. First I tell them I am not a fan of do it yourself grade materials sold at home depot. Second I tell them GAF and ELK just merged and the product lines are entirerly new and I don't want my customers to be the guinnea pig for this merger.

Right now if I have a real cheapo customer I will sell them IKO shingles at $20 a square less than the timberlines, or $10 a square less than Landmark or Heritage. I don't really like the IKO shingle but if someone wants cheap, there it is. For the record, I am putting Tamko heritage on my own home when we get a break in the schedule, they've been sitting on my driveway for a few weeks and I put Tamko Heritage on my Father's house in 2005. We did put Timberlines on my Uncle's house in 2001 though.

Is it true GAF decreased the volume of asphalt being used to manufactuer their products in 2008. They sure seemed lighter. Don't you fear a ton of failures down the road for this business decision?

Tomrod I really do applaud you for actually caring. That goes a long way.

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Ed the Roofer

For that reason alone, I am glad you are taking the time to communicate with this site.

How about the GAF Contractor Programs?

Every time I clicked on the links for the CARE classes held in Michigan City, Indianna, I received a message that they had none on the schedule, even though there were dates in the future listed, so I never had the opportunity to attend any of them.

But, I would doubt that I would buy into a program that REQUIRED me to sell XX Amount of their product with exclusivity.

If I am a good enough contractor to be certified as such, then I am a good enough contractor that deserves the accreditations, not due to purchasing power, but due to doing things correctly and educating the consumers on the Right Way of installations.

Ed

__________________
Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That.
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

TOMROD

It is my pleasure...

The Care Program is run by our Marketing folks. I will forward your concerns to the program director and see if I get a response.

FLRoofPro

I have been part of GAF Master Elite program since close to its inception in the early 90's by Dave Harrison. Still one of the best programs in my opinion. I averaged around a 40% closing rate on residentials and was never the low guy. Of those jobs, probably 30-40% of them upgraded to Lifetimes (TimberlineLTs/Slateline/Capstones). Almost all were Golden Pledge warranties.

I have found that the majority of our competition simply does not offer upgrades or options. I give the low end to the high end with a detailed proposal and let the customer choose. Most customers get very generic proposals that rarely even specify the brand of shingle they will get.

Doing a nice 140sq Camelot/Copper job at present. The Camelots sure look good!

TOMROD

I have grown to think contractors only know how or want to install Timberline (or alike) shingles becuase its forgiving - unlike Camelot - and anyone can throw it up. That is why they dont offer upgrades. I've told our Marketing folks that premiums need to be sold to the homeowner, because contractors (most) won't even offer it to them - homeowners will never know they exisist. I have truggled to design the forgiving aspect of Timberline into our Premuim line of shingles.

Good to hear Camelot is liked. It's such a good looking product that just hasn't hit the mainstream yet...we beleive because of its price.

Thank You for being a GAF loyal contractor...BTW, Dave is no longer with GAF.

Grumpy

Camelot is a great looking product but not worth twice the cost IMO, and most home owners agree with me. I don't sell GAF, but I do sell certainteed. Obviously the offer very comprable product in terms of looks, I feel them to be superior... anyways that's not the point of this discussion.

The typical home owner, in today's market, is buying cheap commodity roofing with bare minimum code requirements and as few upgrades as possible. I do try to push premium/luxury shingles but when I am already $2k above the low bidder and then asking for another $2-4k additional for premium shingles, you can imagine how it's a HARD sell for us.

You're right, you do need to market these shingles to the consumer. Do like the drug companies "Ask your doctor about non habit forming AstraZanica" "Ask your LICENSED and QUALIFIED roofer about Luxury shingles." Sell the home owners on your products for us and we will be more than happy take the added profit from the luxury shingles.

__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing