Seeking Advice On Low Temp Roof Coatings & Applications. - Roofing Talk

LakeviewEnterprises · 03-27-2009, 06:43 PM

I am presently involved in asphalt sealing applications and would like to expand into other areas of work involving various types of coatings and sealer applications. Allthough i have some construction experience and done some roofing i do not have experience in applying the elastomeric roof coatings and installing the monolithic roof layer systems.

I have talked to an individual who is now retired but was once quite sucessfully involved in applying the roof coatings and installing the monolithic roof systems. I have discussed the possibilty of this individual refering work to me in exchange for "x-amount" percentage commision per completed job. This individual would also be available to help me estimate bids, give advice on material application/installation and would inspect the final completed job.

This individual tells me that he exclusively used Conklin Brand Products and they proved to be very excellent products but tended to be a bit expensive. I could be wrong but im assuming a significant part of the expense may have been the middleman distribution and the shipping expenses. He tells me the expense of the product took a sizeable bite out of the price of the job and that if possible i might want to considerlooking into some other brands of materials and coatings.

I will not be doing complete roof tear outs and reinstallations but will refer them to someone else. I will mainly be concentrating on mobile homes, warehouses, storage rental units and barn roofs. Due to the series of severe storms, tornados and severe storms weve had over the past eight years (and the ice storm of Feb 09) i see a lot of steel roofs being installed as opposed to shingle roofs. The steel roofs will most likely need some type of maintenance at a later date.

I know using a cheap product will result in repairs that i personally will have to foot the bill for at a later date. And i would rather buy a more expensive procuct and do the job right the first time without having to worry about going back and doing it over.

I am under the impression the Conklin Brand consists of some very excellent products...thats what i have been told. But my primary concern is the price of the Conklin Products. Are the Conklin prices pretty much the industry standard or are there other products that will work just as well if not better but for a more reasonable price. I would like to use a product manufactured by a well established company with excellent customer and product support.

Any information that can be provided will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Also are there any types of trade organizations and workshops available for this type of work?

Ed the Roofer · 03-28-2009, 02:10 AM

Sure there are places to learn more, but your alliance with the part time retired guy seems like a good start.

Make sure he is bidding the jobs for YOUR COMPANY to make a Profit, not just wages for you as a worker.

Thats a big problem on how some look at profitability.

also, seek out AaronB or Grumpy for some direct hands on advice.

Ed

Here are some other suggestions:

NRCA RELEASES ROOF COATINGS MANUAL
http://www.nrca.net/rp/about/press/2...ngs_guide.aspx

RCMA — The Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association
http://www.roofcoatings.org/

Roof-Coating Market Heats Up
http://www.mrca.org/i4a/headlines/he...=128&archive=1

Cool Roofs Rating Council
http://www.coolroofs.org/crrcmembers_listing.html

RSI Magazine Latest Articles

RCMA In Review: Coatings for today’s roof systems
Steve G. Heinje, co-chair of the RCMA Solar Reflective Coatings Council

June Calendar Item: Coatings
Kate Baumann, Jeff Crace, Tom Meyer, Chris Salazar

RCMA in review
Chris Salazar, Roofing/Siding/Insulation (RSI)

Sustainable Coatings Curtail Repair Costs
Chris Huettig, Technical Sales Manager, Karnak Corporation, Clark, NJ

How Roof Coatings Affect Fire Ratings
W.J. "Skip" Leonard, RRO, CDT Director of Technical Service, Henry Company

RCMA ... Energizing Our Vision
Joe Mellott, Momentum Technologies, Inc., Uniontown, OH

Wise advice: Read and heed the label
Lewis S. Ripps, Chairman, Palmer Asphalt Company, Bayonne, NJ

Archive of Published Columns

RCI Interface Magazine

A Practical Guide to White Coatings: How to Talk to Building Owners about Cool Roofs (pdf)
By Steve Heinje and Tom Meyer

White coatings offer big benefits. As legislators and architects embrace the idea that building design has a huge impact on energy consumption and sustainability, white coatings are now in the spotlight. This paper reviews and explains the major benefits of white coatings and summarizes the basic types of white coatings, as well as installation methods.

Article posted / reprinted with permission of Roof Consultants Institute.

Western Roofing Magazine

White Coatings: Overview of White Coatings & Their Application
Joe Hobson, director of communications, Solar Reflective Coatings Council, Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association

Roofing Contractor Magazine

Every Kind of Roof Coating Under the Sun (pdf) - September 2006

White Coatings Under the Hot Light: Motives, Means, Materials and Opportunities - September 2005

Coatings Keep Things Cool: White Coatings Alleviate Summer Temperature Spikes (pdf) </SPAN>

Maintenance Solutions Magazine

Making white coatings work
Information for this article is adapted from a technical note written by the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association (RCMA).

Raising the Roof
Information for this article is adapted from a technical note written by the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association (RCMA).

The Role of Coatings in Roofing (pdf)
Roofs can be constructed from an amazingly broad variety of bulk materials, including metals, plastics, rubbers, fibers, glass, wood, rocks and ceramics. However, these latter bulk materials account for only a fraction of the materials used in roofing. Roofing contractors today also need to be familiar with roof coatings, which themselves are composed of metals, organics and minerals on a microscopic or molecular scale.

White Coatings Under the Hot Light: Motives, Means, Materials and Opportunities (pdf)
As another summer season of blazing temperatures draws to a close, white coatings continue to be a subject of great fascination as well as practical interest [1]. As their popularity grows, they are increasingly under the hot light: literally because they are being installed on more roofs, and figuratively because they are under increased scrutiny. Building professionals are asking hard questions: What are the benefits? How do they work? What are the materials? Where should they be applied?

Roof Coatings- Top-Level Considerations; White Coatings Clearing Up Questions;
Spotlight, Solar Reflective Coatings Council (pdf) - 3.5MB
Note: Due to the large file size of this document, you may experience a longer download time.

Using acrylic coatings
Article posted / reprinted with permission of Professional Roofing Magazine National Roofing Contractors Association [NRCA]

Oak Ridge National Laboratory [ORNL]

Every Kind of Roof Coating Under the Sun (pdf)

Reroof or Restore? (pdf)

English Roofer · 03-28-2009, 09:13 AM

Ed, thats a great reply!, when do you get time to go to work lol!
Cheers
Dave

Ed the Roofer · 03-29-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by English Roofer

Ed, thats a great reply!, when do you get time to go to work lol!
Cheers
Dave

LOL!!!

Look at the time stamp of when I made that post.

Insomnia allows so much more time to do so many more things.

Ed

Grumpy · 03-31-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by English Roofer

Ed, thats a great reply!, when do you get time to go to work lol!
Cheers
Dave

I often wonder the same.

Grumpy · 03-31-2009, 08:52 PM

I currently use Adurel. It's expensive though. Why? Well compared to any other manufacturers specs I have seen thus far they require the most materias for the thickest dry mills. Some other manufacturers will offer the same guarantees using less materials at lesser dry mills.

I am currently speaking with conklin as well as ER systems and Lucas. Lucas is local to me which is a plus, but won't offer guarantees which is a negative to large commercial jobs.

I am putting together a comparison chart to determine what elastomerics are better than others and how to determine which are basically paint and what are truly going to keep the water out.

LOL I am paying abotu $140 for a 5 gal bucket of acrylic elastomeric but could go to Lowes or Home depot and get a 5 gal bucket for $60. The difference is the carriers used, the % of solids and the type of solids used. But don't compare how much a bucket costs, compare a compelted spec costs and I can tell you and I am finding conklin to be moderately priced.

Acrylics are good if you have good slope, but water will beat them up quick if there is any ponding. Solvent based (SEBS) and Urethanes are good for areas with ponding water.

Most systems are based on first washing, then patching, then applying a bonding resin or primer, perhaps then a mid coat and finally a reflective top coat. The applicationr ates and products used are based on current conditions.

Then there is the polyester reinforcement to consider. Does the roof need it? If so at the seams or the entire roof? If seams only will fabric be used or butyl tape?

www.adurel.com
www.ersystems.com
www.conklin.com

There are 400 manufacturers out there. I'm willing to bet alot of them are the same just some private labeled. So as I said I am off to compare. I intend to compare base ingredients, system specs, price some hypothetical jobs, and choose what's right for my customers and the future of my company.

Grumpy · 03-31-2009, 08:57 PM

Final piece of advice, don't use elastomerics for tear offs. I have had some problems with their board systems when tearing off.

LakeviewEnterprises · 04-02-2009, 08:56 PM

Thanks for the information and the input...i imagine i will be sticking around here for quite some time to come.

Yesterday an individual inquired about repairing the roof on a twenty stall horse barn.
It is a shallow pitched flat steel roof and the owner informed me that the entire roof leaks like a sieve when it is raining. The roof has never been damaged, patched or coated. The owner mentioned that he knew several people who had used the Conklin products and they were extremely pleased with the long term results. We discussed that the Conklin products might be high priced where he commented that the quality of the product would be well worth the higher price.

Grumpy · 04-05-2009, 08:33 PM

High or low price is a relative term. High price compared to what really? Any coating, even the most expensive, will be a cheap price compared to a tear off. A good quality coating will be high priced when compared to roof paint (not a tru liquid applied system).

While I may prompt the customer to let him know that the project may require more investment that some other alternatives, but should also last much much longer and if done right may be considered a permanent roofing solution.

OUTLAW · 04-08-2009, 04:31 PM

The guys from Conklin have been calling me. Seems like somewhat of a pyramid scheme.

I like Hydrostop. Great product with good tech support.

03-27-2009, 06:43 PM	#1
LakeviewEnterprises Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Providence Ky. 42450 Posts: 6	Seeking Advice On Low Temp Roof Coatings & Applications. I am presently involved in asphalt sealing applications and would like to expand into other areas of work involving various types of coatings and sealer applications. Allthough i have some construction experience and done some roofing i do not have experience in applying the elastomeric roof coatings and installing the monolithic roof layer systems. I have talked to an individual who is now retired but was once quite sucessfully involved in applying the roof coatings and installing the monolithic roof systems. I have discussed the possibilty of this individual refering work to me in exchange for "x-amount" percentage commision per completed job. This individual would also be available to help me estimate bids, give advice on material application/installation and would inspect the final completed job. This individual tells me that he exclusively used Conklin Brand Products and they proved to be very excellent products but tended to be a bit expensive. I could be wrong but im assuming a significant part of the expense may have been the middleman distribution and the shipping expenses. He tells me the expense of the product took a sizeable bite out of the price of the job and that if possible i might want to considerlooking into some other brands of materials and coatings. I will not be doing complete roof tear outs and reinstallations but will refer them to someone else. I will mainly be concentrating on mobile homes, warehouses, storage rental units and barn roofs. Due to the series of severe storms, tornados and severe storms weve had over the past eight years (and the ice storm of Feb 09) i see a lot of steel roofs being installed as opposed to shingle roofs. The steel roofs will most likely need some type of maintenance at a later date. I know using a cheap product will result in repairs that i personally will have to foot the bill for at a later date. And i would rather buy a more expensive procuct and do the job right the first time without having to worry about going back and doing it over. I am under the impression the Conklin Brand consists of some very excellent products...thats what i have been told. But my primary concern is the price of the Conklin Products. Are the Conklin prices pretty much the industry standard or are there other products that will work just as well if not better but for a more reasonable price. I would like to use a product manufactured by a well established company with excellent customer and product support. Any information that can be provided will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Also are there any types of trade organizations and workshops available for this type of work?

03-28-2009, 02:10 AM	#2
Ed the Roofer Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 584	Sure there are places to learn more, but your alliance with the part time retired guy seems like a good start. Make sure he is bidding the jobs for YOUR COMPANY to make a Profit, not just wages for you as a worker. Thats a big problem on how some look at profitability. also, seek out AaronB or Grumpy for some direct hands on advice. Ed Here are some other suggestions: NRCA RELEASES ROOF COATINGS MANUAL http://www.nrca.net/rp/about/press/2...ngs_guide.aspx RCMA — The Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association http://www.roofcoatings.org/ Roof-Coating Market Heats Up http://www.mrca.org/i4a/headlines/he...=128&archive=1 Cool Roofs Rating Council http://www.coolroofs.org/crrcmembers_listing.html RSI Magazine Latest Articles RCMA In Review: Coatings for today’s roof systems Steve G. Heinje, co-chair of the RCMA Solar Reflective Coatings Council June Calendar Item: Coatings Kate Baumann, Jeff Crace, Tom Meyer, Chris Salazar RCMA in review Chris Salazar, Roofing/Siding/Insulation (RSI) Sustainable Coatings Curtail Repair Costs Chris Huettig, Technical Sales Manager, Karnak Corporation, Clark, NJ How Roof Coatings Affect Fire Ratings W.J. "Skip" Leonard, RRO, CDT Director of Technical Service, Henry Company RCMA ... Energizing Our Vision Joe Mellott, Momentum Technologies, Inc., Uniontown, OH Wise advice: Read and heed the label Lewis S. Ripps, Chairman, Palmer Asphalt Company, Bayonne, NJ Archive of Published Columns RCI Interface Magazine A Practical Guide to White Coatings: How to Talk to Building Owners about Cool Roofs (pdf) By Steve Heinje and Tom Meyer White coatings offer big benefits. As legislators and architects embrace the idea that building design has a huge impact on energy consumption and sustainability, white coatings are now in the spotlight. This paper reviews and explains the major benefits of white coatings and summarizes the basic types of white coatings, as well as installation methods. Article posted / reprinted with permission of Roof Consultants Institute. Western Roofing Magazine White Coatings: Overview of White Coatings & Their Application Joe Hobson, director of communications, Solar Reflective Coatings Council, Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association Roofing Contractor Magazine Every Kind of Roof Coating Under the Sun (pdf) - September 2006 White Coatings Under the Hot Light: Motives, Means, Materials and Opportunities - September 2005 Coatings Keep Things Cool: White Coatings Alleviate Summer Temperature Spikes (pdf) </SPAN> Maintenance Solutions Magazine Making white coatings work Information for this article is adapted from a technical note written by the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association (RCMA). Raising the Roof Information for this article is adapted from a technical note written by the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association (RCMA). The Role of Coatings in Roofing (pdf) Roofs can be constructed from an amazingly broad variety of bulk materials, including metals, plastics, rubbers, fibers, glass, wood, rocks and ceramics. However, these latter bulk materials account for only a fraction of the materials used in roofing. Roofing contractors today also need to be familiar with roof coatings, which themselves are composed of metals, organics and minerals on a microscopic or molecular scale. White Coatings Under the Hot Light: Motives, Means, Materials and Opportunities (pdf) As another summer season of blazing temperatures draws to a close, white coatings continue to be a subject of great fascination as well as practical interest [1]. As their popularity grows, they are increasingly under the hot light: literally because they are being installed on more roofs, and figuratively because they are under increased scrutiny. Building professionals are asking hard questions: What are the benefits? How do they work? What are the materials? Where should they be applied? Roof Coatings- Top-Level Considerations; White Coatings Clearing Up Questions; Spotlight, Solar Reflective Coatings Council (pdf) - 3.5MB Note: Due to the large file size of this document, you may experience a longer download time. Using acrylic coatings Article posted / reprinted with permission of Professional Roofing Magazine National Roofing Contractors Association [NRCA] Oak Ridge National Laboratory [ORNL] Every Kind of Roof Coating Under the Sun (pdf) Reroof or Restore? (pdf) __________________ Just Wait A Minute, I Will Be Right Back With A Link For That. http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

03-28-2009, 09:13 AM	#3
English Roofer Roofing Expert Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 188	Ed, thats a great reply!, when do you get time to go to work lol! Cheers Dave __________________ 'I can resist anything but temptation'- Oscar Wilde

03-31-2009, 08:52 PM	#6
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 731	I currently use Adurel. It's expensive though. Why? Well compared to any other manufacturers specs I have seen thus far they require the most materias for the thickest dry mills. Some other manufacturers will offer the same guarantees using less materials at lesser dry mills. I am currently speaking with conklin as well as ER systems and Lucas. Lucas is local to me which is a plus, but won't offer guarantees which is a negative to large commercial jobs. I am putting together a comparison chart to determine what elastomerics are better than others and how to determine which are basically paint and what are truly going to keep the water out. LOL I am paying abotu $140 for a 5 gal bucket of acrylic elastomeric but could go to Lowes or Home depot and get a 5 gal bucket for $60. The difference is the carriers used, the % of solids and the type of solids used. But don't compare how much a bucket costs, compare a compelted spec costs and I can tell you and I am finding conklin to be moderately priced. Acrylics are good if you have good slope, but water will beat them up quick if there is any ponding. Solvent based (SEBS) and Urethanes are good for areas with ponding water. Most systems are based on first washing, then patching, then applying a bonding resin or primer, perhaps then a mid coat and finally a reflective top coat. The applicationr ates and products used are based on current conditions. Then there is the polyester reinforcement to consider. Does the roof need it? If so at the seams or the entire roof? If seams only will fabric be used or butyl tape? www.adurel.com www.ersystems.com www.conklin.com There are 400 manufacturers out there. I'm willing to bet alot of them are the same just some private labeled. So as I said I am off to compare. I intend to compare base ingredients, system specs, price some hypothetical jobs, and choose what's right for my customers and the future of my company. __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing Last edited by Grumpy; 03-31-2009 at 08:55 PM.

03-31-2009, 08:57 PM	#7
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 731	Final piece of advice, don't use elastomerics for tear offs. I have had some problems with their board systems when tearing off. __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

04-02-2009, 08:56 PM	#8
LakeviewEnterprises Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Providence Ky. 42450 Posts: 6	Thanks for the information and the input...i imagine i will be sticking around here for quite some time to come. Yesterday an individual inquired about repairing the roof on a twenty stall horse barn. It is a shallow pitched flat steel roof and the owner informed me that the entire roof leaks like a sieve when it is raining. The roof has never been damaged, patched or coated. The owner mentioned that he knew several people who had used the Conklin products and they were extremely pleased with the long term results. We discussed that the Conklin products might be high priced where he commented that the quality of the product would be well worth the higher price.

04-05-2009, 08:33 PM	#9
Grumpy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 731	High or low price is a relative term. High price compared to what really? Any coating, even the most expensive, will be a cheap price compared to a tear off. A good quality coating will be high priced when compared to roof paint (not a tru liquid applied system). While I may prompt the customer to let him know that the project may require more investment that some other alternatives, but should also last much much longer and if done right may be considered a permanent roofing solution. __________________ -Grumpy Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

04-08-2009, 04:31 PM	#10
OUTLAW Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: VIRGINIA Posts: 167	The guys from Conklin have been calling me. Seems like somewhat of a pyramid scheme. I like Hydrostop. Great product with good tech support. __________________ http://www.ClarkRoofingAndSiding.com

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